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Topic Review (Newest First)
08-01-2009 09:47 AM
cobalt327
Quote:
Originally Posted by upstand2
Theres two versions the pricey billit one and a average Joe one for $75.
Yeah, I noticed that- but what a difference! One for $75, the other one over $550. Sure, it has a fancy aluminum timing cover and all, but still!

Quote:
I can see how it would alter the timeing , but I'm in the US.
LOL- I caught that, good one!

Quote:
On the Comp unit the slacks on the other side, assuming there is enough slack would'nt it do the opposite of the cam correct , like retard on the lowend and advance up top?
It would do the opposite- if it were spring loaded, etc. like the Cam Correct unit. In this case, the tensioner is just that and that only- a tensioner.

But you are right- it would work "backwards", so to speak, IMO. But I, too, am in the US.
08-01-2009 08:29 AM
ap72
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guy Hiltz
All I have left to say on this subject is that you Yankees must be on crack cocaine.....
Us Canadians arent that dumb enough to belive crap like this.Anyone who thinks that a tiny bit of stretch in a timing chain is going to result in 30 + hp,one tooth off of timing,or 6 degrees of timing,obviously has zero experience with an engine dyno,or engine building.Think about where you are; This is a HOTRODDERS FORUM,not a worn out old engine place.Maybe you guys have never degreed a cam.If you had,you would not be posting thnking that a bit of slack taken out of a built small or big block,( or any other ),would make that much of a difference.
I've had my engine on a dyno,I speak from first hand experience.
Anyone here that thinks that a properly built engine will see any difference in hp levels by using a timing tensioner device is a complete idiot.And ap72,to think that there is any such thing as a 7500 rpm street build big block shows your ignorance in this discussion.
Again,all the OP posted on is a chain tensioning device,nothing else,look at what it is.
Guy

I'm not here to argue how much you do or do not understand, just to say taht the cam timing is altered with this system, yes it varies with the tensioners spring, and yes people do run 7500 RPM on big blocks on the street.

I tried explaining it as simpley as i could and I think most people understand the concept, to me its really not that complicated. A worn tensioner on many OHC engines pretty much produces the same effect, although it is not wanted in that situation.
07-31-2009 07:43 PM
upstand2 Theres two versions the pricey billit one and a average Joe one for $75.
I can see how it would alter the timeing , but I'm in the US.
On the Comp unit the slacks on the other side, assuming there is enough slack would'nt it do the opposite of the cam correct , like retard on the lowend and advance up top? I think there is a patent on Cam Correct.
07-31-2009 07:27 PM
cobalt327
Quote:
Originally Posted by cobalt327
Only if that molecule-aligning magnet was hooked to the fuel line first!

I've never spoken to anyone who has used one, either. Even google comes up pretty much empty.
The Comp 6500 has the same looking slack going on (opposite side), wonder why THEY don't advertise good power increase and etc. lol

07-31-2009 07:07 PM
Guy Hiltz All I have left to say on this subject is that you Yankees must be on crack cocaine.....
Us Canadians arent that dumb enough to belive crap like this.Anyone who thinks that a tiny bit of stretch in a timing chain is going to result in 30 + hp,one tooth off of timing,or 6 degrees of timing,obviously has zero experience with an engine dyno,or engine building.Think about where you are; This is a HOTRODDERS FORUM,not a worn out old engine place.Maybe you guys have never degreed a cam.If you had,you would not be posting thnking that a bit of slack taken out of a built small or big block,( or any other ),would make that much of a difference.
I've had my engine on a dyno,I speak from first hand experience.
Anyone here that thinks that a properly built engine will see any difference in hp levels by using a timing tensioner device is a complete idiot.And ap72,to think that there is any such thing as a 7500 rpm street build big block shows your ignorance in this discussion.
Again,all the OP posted on is a chain tensioning device,nothing else,look at what it is.
Guy
07-31-2009 04:10 PM
cobalt327
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deez
Well given the fact that it would most likely be used by a Saturday Night Racer as opposed to Joe Street, every little bit helps. If it got you 5HP that's 5 more than if not. As stated it's been around for some time but I never kinew anyone to use one. Probably if used with a Tornado it would be best. LOL
Only if that molecule-aligning magnet was hooked to the fuel line first!

I've never spoken to anyone who has used one, either. Even google comes up pretty much empty.
07-31-2009 04:02 PM
Deez Well given the fact that it would most likely be used by a Saturday Night Racer as opposed to Joe Street, every little bit helps. If it got you 5HP that's 5 more than if not. As stated it's been around for some time but I never kinew anyone to use one. Probably if used with a Tornado it would be best. LOL
07-31-2009 03:48 PM
cobalt327 Apparently the different springs supplied has something to do w/the timing alteration. Too spendy for me, even if it worked good.

07-31-2009 02:31 PM
Plaintoast You are absolutely correct on a tensioner changing timing, and it can a large
amount.
I was recently putting a manual cam change tensioner in a customers honda cbr600 and I could vary the idle RPM by close to 1000 RPM's just by how loose
or tight the tensioner was set.
07-31-2009 12:04 PM
ap72 all you need is a tensioner to adjust the timing. I know its simple- but that is usaully a mark of a good design. See pic attached on how a tensioner can adjust the timing.
07-31-2009 11:24 AM
Guy Hiltz You guys need to have a real close look at this product,there is absolutely no way that it has anything to do with any aspect of controlling variable cam/valve timing;
https://www.competitionproducts.com/...sp?number=8271
Take a real close look,there are 2 little shoes that put a bit of tension on the timing chain,theres nothing else there !!! If you really think that this will affect cam timing by as much as 6 degrees,or make 30 + hp,you probably believe that the moon is made out of green cheese LOL

It can shift cam timing while the enigne is operating though- a varaible cam timing system of sorts

This item does not "shift cam timing while the engine is operating",as I say,take a real close look.There are no fancy little doodads that magiclly alter the cam timing here,look very,very close...
Guy
07-31-2009 09:52 AM
ap72 Actaulyl the tensioner does control variable valve timing, but I think it only adjusts it by like 6 degrees.


I did a very quick DD of a big block combo, kind of a hot street setup. at 7500 RPM it shows a 34hp difference just by advancing the cam 6 degrees, that cam retarded 6 degrees picks up 18 ftlbs at 3500 RPM- essentailly doing what it is designed to do. The problem is that the way it works is that when you stomp on it the cam is retarded, essentailly moving your power upstairs when you are probably looking for it at the midrange. Advancing a cam for cruise conditions would help slightly with milage but this system still has a LOT to work out- not something I would want to tackle.

It can shift cam timing while the enigne is operating though- a varaible cam timing system of sorts.
07-31-2009 09:06 AM
cobalt327 Guy, I'm not trying to argue w/you , but unless I'm mistaken, this deal actually does change the cam timing- more than just taking up the stretch of an ordinary chain.

IIRC, the thing has a LOT of play, and the engine speed changes the amount of play, effectively (in theory, anyway) altering the timing.

Still very close to "snake oil", but not quite. At least the theory behind it is technically sound.
07-31-2009 08:37 AM
Guy Hiltz There is no way on earth that taking any play out of a timing chain is going to result in a gain of 30 hp on a big block,a little common sense should tell you this.Again,this device does not control variable valve/cam timing,it puts tension on the timing chain,plain & simple.
Guy
07-31-2009 07:34 AM
ap72
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guy Hiltz
I would think that any difference in cam or ignition timing with this device is going to be very minimal,its a copy of this Comp Cams peice;
http://www.compcams.com/technical/Ca...106-07/320.pdf
The timing chain would have to have an awful lot of stretch in it before there would be an advantage to using this.And to call it a variable valve timing control device seems to be a bit of false advertising,its is a tensioning device,period.And 7-30 hp gain,this isnt even realistic !!! And the parts are affected by wear and need to be checked on a regular basis.Just another case of someone trying to lighten our wallets with an unecessary peice. JMO !!!
Guy

Its not a guy tryiong to pawn off snake oil- it actaully does work, its just that like most first steps it has a lot of flaws and needs refining. Not a bad idea, just hard to implement effectively. I could see 30hp on a big block given the right parameters.
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