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Topic Review (Newest First)
01-04-2010 10:27 PM
hhchassis
327 rebuild

Quote:
Originally Posted by rnix999
Hi,
I'm looking at rebuilding a 327 and could use some help on part selection, the car is as following:

CAR:
1965 Corvette (to far gone from original to go that restoration route)
M21 4 speed
4:11 12 bolt posi rear end
Weight 3200#

Engine:
327 l79
original block .030 over
heads double hump with 1.94 valves (not original or correct)
2.5 in ram horn exhaust manifolds
zz4 intake
eldebrock 600 cfm carb

Goals:
weekend driver, no racing intentions, I'm more interested in driving winding roads but would like some off the line performance.
325-350 hp
350 minimum torque (I do understand that this is a 327 and not a 383)
$ 2500 to $ 3000 budget (hopefully including machine work)

Intend to keep:
Block
crank
Rods (if feasible)
carb
intake
2.5 in ram horn manifolds

Intend to replace:
Cam
heads
pistons
and other required items for a rebuild

I am pretty set on keeping this block as long as it checks outs and would like recommendations for heads and cam replacement. I am willing to consider aluminum or cast iron heads, weight is not a real concern to me, also what kind of intake flow values should i be looking at for the heads? (I have looked though previous posts and have a basic understanding of high vs low flowing heads, so thinking on the lower end, just not quite sure what target should be.)
I plan on lowering the compression of the engine to be pump gas friendly (91 max octane in California). I'm assuming that this would be accomplished through different pistons. (present pistons are the 11:1 comp. l79 327 sbc). If my goals are unrealistic please let me know and your help is appreciated.
ok, 3000.00 will probally be ok, but ca is high just because the state, u can search PAW out of chatsworth ca., they have good prices, are u doing this ur self or a shop, my shop could do this for approx 3200.00, and thats machine work, also their are nothing wrong with those heads, I would have them ported and polish, thats where ur money is going too go, so good luck, any more questions, just ask, or call, 317-401-0266 thanks scott
01-04-2010 10:16 PM
Hippie
Quote:
Originally Posted by automotive breath
That's some stout numbers for a 40+ year old street SBC.
45 years old and with a fairly "mild" flat tappet cam, just think what a modern roller cam would do for it. That's why I think he should shelve the 327 and build a 350 with a factory roller cam block.

I have actual flow numbers for both sets of AFR heads saved in DD, I just wish there was more flexibilty on manifold and header inputs. BTW these numbers are with the "small tube headers with mufflers" file not open headers. EDIT: That's with a 650 and a dual plane manifold also, not the 750 and single plane.


Back "in the day" there was a guy here with a stock bodied '68 Chevelle SS with full factory interior running a single 4 bbl. 331 with a 4 speed and 5.13 gears that ran honest high 11's/low 12's on the strip. No big deal by today's standards but back then it was really something. This was the late 70's and nobody around here had heard of nitrous, it was all motor and except for open headers and slicks the car was street legal. He'd throw mufflers and street tires on it once in awhile and bring it into town. I don't know too many particulars on the engine but the cam was BIG and that thing would REV! Except for the Pro Stock like idle it would have passed for any other '68 Chevelle around, it even had a vinyl roof. Sunoco 260 was about $0.60 a Gal. and available everywhere, those were the days.....
01-04-2010 09:54 PM
automotive breath
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hippie
437HP & 411FtLbs at the same RPM.
That's some stout numbers for a 40+ year old street SBC.
01-04-2010 09:47 PM
Hippie
Quote:
Originally Posted by automotive breath
How much power does DD estimate with the AFR 180cc heads?

Maybe OP got wise, he is in the shop installing an LS7 from a late model vette!
437HP & 411FtLbs at the same RPM.
01-04-2010 09:34 PM
automotive breath
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hippie
According to DD2000 with AFR 195 Eliminator heads it would make "about" 441 FWHP @ 6500 and 412 FWTQ at 4500 and 5000 RPM so Peak TQ would be slightly higher somewhere about 4750. Yeah, it would be a lot of fun, definitely would leave no doubt to even non-car people that it was NOT stock.

My question is, where did the OP go? Still an interesting thread though even if he did bail on us.
How much power does DD estimate with the AFR 180cc heads?

Maybe OP got wise, he is in the shop installing an LS7 from a late model vette!
01-04-2010 09:01 PM
automotive breath The pictures look good. I concentrate on three areas in the intake port, the
throat size, the push rod pinch and the width of the apex of the short turn.
Thats the only areas I remove much material.

I'm not concerned with low lift flow, the piston is still near TDC at that point.
The mid to high lift curve is more important IMO. If running a near stock
engine at low RPM low lift flow becomes more important.

On the exhaust side I resize and shape the entire port past the throat. I'll take
pictures when it warms up, no heat in the shop.
01-04-2010 08:11 PM
ap72 i didn`t change the bowl much at all though i did get into the runners some to straighten them out. i really need to get this stuff tested. got to get it by th misses to be though.
01-04-2010 04:15 PM
Rickracer
Quote:
Originally Posted by ap72
...I'm curious though, what would you change? ...If you could give me some details I'm all ears.....
I used to do a lot of porting, my 492s got the full treatment, the oval ports on my 427 flowed more than a set of stock square ports with MUCH better velocity and low end, did quite a few circle track heads for another shop here in town, but that was years ago, and they were a lot different animals than the Vortecs. Dennis, my machinist, would be the guy to ask, there are companies that make CNC plots from his port work for some of the import stuff. I just know he's told me several times that almost anything done to the port walls and bowls hurts flow, not help it. Chevy really did their homework on the Vortecs.
01-04-2010 03:44 PM
Hippie
Quote:
Originally Posted by 454C10
4.11 gear with a 4 spd already has "low speed torque" due to the engine revving so high. That combo needs an engine that makes power in the upper rpms (unless it is going into a tow truck).

With a smaller cam, 1st gear isn't usable, well maybe for a parking lot. Even with the 292H, I take off in 2nd gear most times.

the 292H is back to making torque at 3000 rpms which would be around 20mph in first gear (4.11 gear, 2.75 first gear, 26 inch tire).
He has an M-21 close ratio Muncie with 2.20 first gear. Assuming a 26 inch tire he would be turning 6400 RPM @ 55 MPH in 1st, that better be one long parking lot!
01-04-2010 02:33 PM
ap72
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rickracer
Not to pick on you, but while they look good, I would bet money those don't flow as much at .150 to .400 lift as a bone stock set out of the box, which is where the stock Vortecs with a GOOD valve job really shine. Got any flow numbers on them???
unfortunately, no. I have a few sets of heads I was going to take to my buddy's place all at once (he's two hours away), but with an upcoming wedding and house buying time is well... non-existant.

I'm curious though, what would you change? These were all taken before the valve job. The SSR is a hair flat at the top but I did my best to give it a good curve, they cc out right at 180. I would take some more of the current stuff i have but my camera was stolen when my truck was broken into.

If you could give me some details I'm all ears. I've talked to a few head porters for tips and tricks but I'm just the average joe. I design landfills for a living.
01-04-2010 02:19 PM
Rickracer Not to pick on you, but while they look good, I would bet money those don't flow as much at .150 to .400 lift as a bone stock set out of the box, which is where the stock Vortecs with a GOOD valve job really shine. Got any flow numbers on them???
01-04-2010 02:10 PM
ap72 here are some old vortec pics I have, I don't know if they're from the same set or different ones... I really need to label pictures better. It shows what a "average joe" can do with about a $100 investment in tools.
01-04-2010 01:46 PM
ap72 maybe I have too much faith in the average joe...



I consider myself average, but who knows.
01-04-2010 01:30 PM
Rickracer
Quote:
Originally Posted by automotive breath
Always listen to your machinist over some nobody on the internet..... He is likely fixing some of the obstructions in the vortec heads with his valve job...... Iíll post some pictures of a set Iím porting now.
He says most of his flow 238~242 after the valve job, also says he can get 10~15 more but it's not worth the trouble. So I think we're still on the same page. Apparently, you and I think nothing about taking a die grinder to a perfectly good set of heads, , but the average Joe can really mess them up badly without some teaching and/or experience, that was the reason I considered it bad advice,
01-04-2010 01:10 PM
Hippie
Quote:
Originally Posted by automotive breath
If you go back and study the combination I posted, itís really very mild with a power peak well below 7000 RPM, should make over 400 HP.
According to DD2000 with AFR 195 Eliminator heads it would make "about" 441 FWHP @ 6500 and 412 FWTQ at 4500 and 5000 RPM so Peak TQ would be slightly higher somewhere about 4750. Yeah, it would be a lot of fun, definitely would leave no doubt to even non-car people that it was NOT stock.

My question is, where did the OP go? Still an interesting thread though even if he did bail on us.
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