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Topic Review (Newest First)
01-28-2010 12:46 PM
oldred First I do agree that the Duel MIG has it's place and if budget constraints mean the difference between owning a welder or not then it's limitations may be worth living with. However you keep saying a person can not tell the difference between a weld made with this welder and a "quality" welder but don't kid yourself there IS a difference! I have used "quality" welders for over 40 years now and I am also quite well familiar with the "duel MIG" (the one I mentioned earlier) and I can definitely tell a difference in the way they weld, a big difference! Does this mean the HF welder makes an inferior weld? Not likely but it does indeed mean there is a difference in the way the weld goes on, this can be most noticeable when doing difficult positions such as overhead welding where the excess spatter can cause feeding problems. The arc stability is not as good and wire feed is not as steady and while these may be hardly noticeable for most welding chores it can make a difference when doing something like body panels. Can't tell the difference between a weld made by the duel MIG and, for instance, a Miller? I bet if you compared them side by side on a body panel you could tell a difference, less spatter to clean up and most likely more problems with burn through. Again, the HF MIG may have it's place and it certainly can be usable but you seem to want to compare it to the "big three" but there simply is no comparison! If you ever get the chance to use a "quality" welder for delicate work then you will immediately see what we are talking about.




BTW, I noticed you very correctly used the term MAG welder which it most certainly is. The term MIG (Metal INERT Gas) has become synonymous with shielded wire welding even within most industry but it is sort of misleading because MIG welding would be using an Inert gas such as pure Argon or Helium while using C25 or CO2 is using an active gas, hence the acronym "MAG" (Metal ACTIVE Gas). Because this is so common and pretty much accepted industry wide it is not much of a problem but the common error of calling a flux core welder a MIG is. MIG and MAG are two nearly identical processes except for use of a different shielding while Flux core is a totally different process sharing only the method by which the filler metal is supplied. I guess this has nothing to do with HF welders but I thought I would mention it anyway.
01-28-2010 12:14 PM
greenmoonshine
Quote:
Originally Posted by matt167
the closest Lincoln in spec is actully the Easy Mig 140 which is a 110v unit but carries 20% duty cycle at 90 amps instead of 115 that the 220v HF machine has making the the Lincoln a much more efficent machine using 1/2 the current to do the same thing.
As I stated I was comparing the price ("$") to # of functions, not what the input power rating was but since you are bringing up there duty cycle's again to disprove my point about staring at a weld and not being able to tell what machine made it.
The HF 151 specs are as follows
20% @ 105 amps
40% @ 75 amps
90% @ 50 amps
100% @ 30 amps
sure if you keep looking threw all of the different welders/models you will always find one that will out perform another but at a much higher cost.
which was my original point(OP), I got a Dual MIG welder, a welder cart and a welding mask(its not a helmet) all for $200 which all of this is just about 1/3 the cost for that lincoln model and will still do the same welds.
Quote:
Originally Posted by matt167
but you would be able to tell the welders apart because if your comparing 220v to 220v the Lincoln will outweld the HF with it's duty cycle, so the HF welder would show more stops in the weld.. if you compare your 220v HF to the 120V Lincoln, it would be closer.
Yes you would be able to tell the welders apart because they are made by 2 different companies and carry different badges/boxes,as for the stops in the weld, well thats just a part of welding, again its all about the "weldor" but with a duty cycle of 100% for 30 amps, you can weld thin sheet metal all day long and woul only have to stop for bathroom breaks.
besides if you were planning on welding that much steel on 90 amps you wouldnt even be looking at a welder that carried a 20% duty cycle for that application in the first place. especially if you just wanted one continues seem.
Just curious......... How much was the lincoln 220v? OH yea,
Only $739.99 !!!!!!!!!!
Thanks for taking the time to look up those links. made it quicker.
01-28-2010 09:58 AM
matt167
Quote:
Originally Posted by greenmoonshine
You are correct on one thing, These welders we speak of do have duty cycles ........ but still wouldnt be able to tell which brand welder made the weld,this budget welder or this quality(Lincoln) one(its all in the skilled hands of the weldor ), besides I just brought up the Lincoln as a comparison in price as to number of function's, I would almost bet its duty cycle is about(or is) the same of this HF model...........
SO...... Like I said,
well, if you actually do the comparing Lincoln doesn't really make a welder that compares to the HF dual Mig 151, because it pretty much has 110v specs for a 220v welder.. the closest Lincoln in spec is actully the Lincoln Easy Mig 140 which is a 110v unit but carries 20% duty cycle at 90 amps instead of 115 that the 220v HF machine has. making the the Lincoln a much more efficent machine using 1/2 the current to do the same thing.. Lincoln's Easy Mig 180 is there smallest 220v machine, and can do 30% at 130 amps.. and Lincoln is the cheapest on the price spectrum of 'brand name' welders... not saying the HF won't do what you want, but you would be able to tell the welders apart because if your comparing 220v to 220v the Lincoln will outweld the HF with it's duty cycle, so the HF welder would show more stops in the weld.. if you compare your 220v HF to the 120V Lincoln, it would be closer.
01-27-2010 10:20 PM
greenmoonshine
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepi
Well go grab it and haul it home..
Apparently you didnt read all the thread but I did haul it home and it seems to be welding fine, I have MAG welded with it so far and strikes an ark every time without a nitch
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepi
We all have our own preferences on welding equipment . Miller happens to be my choice if you are asking ..
I'm sure there are thousand of Miller, Lincoln, Hobart(etc.) fans alike......everybody has there preferences as you stated and on some days I prefer to drink a Natural light over a Bud light, doesnt make me any less of an alcoholic Lol. but in the end there still made out of the same things, one will get you to from point A to point B just the same no matter what its wrapped in.
01-27-2010 09:42 PM
pepi Well go grab it and haul it home, I personally would not own a HF welder on a bet, or could not be given one for that matter .

We all have our own preferences on welding equipment . Miller happens to be my choice if you are asking ..
01-27-2010 09:13 PM
greenmoonshine
Quote:
Originally Posted by matt167
while you may call it a retorical question, there really is an answer and it would be yes.. or at least if it was a quality welder or not.. duty cycle would be the biggest culprit
You are correct on one thing, These welders we speak of do have duty cycles ........ but still wouldnt be able to tell which brand welder made the weld,this budget welder or this quality(Lincoln) one(its all in the skilled hands of the weldor ), besides I just brought up the Lincoln as a comparison in price as to number of function's, I would almost bet its duty cycle is about(or is) the same of this HF model...........
SO...... Like I said,
Quote:
Originally Posted by greenmoonshine
rhetorical
01-24-2010 02:01 PM
matt167
Quote:
Originally Posted by greenmoonshine
Although, if you stared at a weld........... could you tell what brand welder made it?
You dont really need to answer this as it is a rhetorical Question.
while you may call it a retorical question, there really is an answer and it would be yes.. or at least if it was a quality welder or not.. duty cycle would be the biggest culprit
01-23-2010 06:05 PM
greenmoonshine Although, if you stared at a weld........... could you tell what brand welder made it?
You dont really need to answer this as it is a rhetorical Question.
01-23-2010 01:30 PM
Jake_Dragon I have had mine for a couple of years. It has done what I have asked it to do. I have welded up a few exhaust systems and motor mounts. I have done some frame work with it and it has served me well. Don't expect to weld for an hour because on 1/8 steel its going to weld about 6 inches then you will need to let it cool off. A fan would probably help but it wasn't that bad of a wait. It didn't help that I live in Florida and its 90 out side

If you want to do more than just hobby welding then you need to follow the rule right tool for the right job.
01-23-2010 01:02 PM
oldred
Quote:
Originally Posted by matt167
tons of diffrences. even IF the components are the same, that does not mean the quality or construction is the same. several factors, circuitry, design of many parts ect..., .. if your expecting your blue HF box to be a Lincoln ( or any name brand ) in a diffrent box and painted a diffrent color then you will be dissapointed.. it might work just fine for you and provide years of trouble free service.. but even so, it is not, and will never be comparable to any brand name welder


Absolutely! There is no comparison between the HF welder and a "Name brand"!


Quote:
Originally Posted by greenmoonshine
Break these welders down, part by part, and tell me what the differences are.
Diode's, capacitor's, transformer's, rectifiers, potentiometer's, fan, switches.... etc.


Sure they may share similar types of parts but if you open one up no one will have to show you the differences between the cheap welders and quality welders. The difference is the size and quality of these components, for example they will both contain transformers but look at the difference in size of the darn things! Take a look at how they are built, plastic where metal should be used, etc, big differences!

I had a couple of positive things to say about that welder based on having seen one do OK and hold up for a long time BUT that in no way means they are even close to the quality or capability of a "real" welder. If a person is willing to accept the limitations of these things and take a chance on the durability then they can work for light duty welding but make no mistake they are NOT going to come even close to performing like a Miller, Lincoln or Hobart!
01-22-2010 10:13 PM
greenmoonshine
Quote:
Originally Posted by matt167
it is not, and will never be comparable to any brand name welder
Well said
01-22-2010 09:16 PM
matt167
Quote:
Originally Posted by greenmoonshine
Break these welders down, part by part, and tell me what the differences are.
Diode's, capacitor's, transformer's, rectifiers, potentiometer's, fan, switches.... etc.
Wonder where they all source there parts from
tons of diffrences. even IF the components are the same, that does not mean the quality or construction is the same. several factors, circuitry, design of many parts ect..., .. if your expecting your blue HF box to be a Lincoln ( or any name brand ) in a diffrent box and painted a diffrent color then you will be dissapointed.. it might work just fine for you and provide years of trouble free service.. but even so, it is not, and will never be comparable to any brand name welder
01-22-2010 08:53 PM
greenmoonshine
Quote:
Originally Posted by snorulz
Hate to break it to you but you are getting a heck of a lot more than just one more heat setting for the extra $300. You get what you pay for. I hope the hf welder works well for you.
Break these welders down, part by part, and tell me what the differences are.
Diode's, capacitor's, transformer's, rectifiers, potentiometer's, fan, switches.... etc.
Wonder where they all source there parts from
01-22-2010 09:42 AM
oldred I have to agree with him on the HF "Duel MIG", I have a buddy who has had one for several years and the darn thing works just fine! He bought the MIG and the $199 TIG machines several years ago and we discussed them here then, for the money they seemed to be ok at the time and they are still going. I am NOT saying that either one is even in the same class as a Lincoln or Miller but they can work ok if the user is willing to accept the limitations and do so at a fraction of the cost. If someone is buying one of these things to use everyday or they expect to do more than just body work or maybe lawnmower repair then they will probably be sorely disappointed but for light duty welding on an occasional basis they seem to work ok, at least the two I know of are. That guy has done quite a bit of auto body sheetmetal and built a motorcycle frame with the TIG, he is also a hobby gunsmith and uses the TIG machine for that. The "Duel MIG" was bought to replace a cab corner in his Chevy pickup but it has continued to serve long after that little project was done, less than $400.00 for both a TIG and a MIG and both have done just fine.


These things are NOT heavy duty by any stretch and if someone buys either of them they can only expect very light duty from them but for some people that may be all that is needed.
01-22-2010 07:56 AM
matt167
Quote:
Originally Posted by greenmoonshine
Just wanted to let ya know that you are WRONG!
I just got this model and hooked it up and what do ya know......... the stinger is only HOT when trigger is pulled. You should never jump to conclusions because you once owned one of there model's and it didnt work for you or maybe you didnt work for it....... anyways its not the paint brushes....its the painter
they must have changed them, when I bought mine, they were ALL hot on contact.. but I can tell you, if you expect a Harbor Freight welder to be of the same quality as a Lincoln your WRONG.. with the quality welders, your getting for , a quality machine you can rely on, feed mechanisms that will be gaurenteed to work smooth ( my HF was anything but, and most reviews say the same. ), replaceable parts, hoses, ground wires ect... It's not ' all in the user ' with a welder. if a welder has inconsistant amperage/ inconsistant feeding, your NOT going to get a good result, no matter how good of a welder you are ... 90% of my specialty tools are all HF. grinders, chop saw, harmonic balancer puller, ball joint press, leak down tester, all my air tools.. but my welder isn't, and never ever will be unless I come across the rare occasion there selling refurbished Hobart Handler 140's and I have the money.. but for the time being. my Hobart knockoff is doing just fine. still chineese but, still cost around $350, and much, much better than the paperweight HF called a welder

with that, as long as your spot welding, your machine should do ok, but don't try to weld a frame or anything.
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