|01-26-2010 01:48 PM|
|DoubleVision||My nephew rang me up and said he wanted to go ahead and replace the 2.9 V6 in his 4 wheel drive ranger with a 4.0 he had laying around. I ordered the rebuild kit for the 4.0 and off he went. Within no time at all, he had it swapped in, next we go to the junkyard and get a computer wiring harness off a Explorer SUV. It was around that time he learned, the haresses are not the same, it seems ford changed them every other month. He takes it home and makes the mods needed to adapt the harness. He calls me and says certain things aren`t working, like the radio, the a/c blower motor, and other odds and ends. Since I`m not big on fords I told him the only thing I knew to tell him which was look for something disconnected somewhere. Told`em check the fuse panel to make sure it was getting power. Then after we got off the phone a thought struck me, I had remembered looking at the truck when the engine was out and noticed in the underhood fuse panel, about center ways there was 3 fuses not present. Then it hit me that maybe they had been relocated on the Explorer harness to these places in the fuse box. so I called him back and told him to install a fuse in every open space in the fuse box under the hood. He called me back in 5 minutes happy as he could be as everything worked again. It made it laughable to me that ford made those tiny changes in a wiring harness, I guess one location for the radio fuse was better than another lol.|
|01-26-2010 01:00 PM|
I think Rambler/AMC has Ford trumped when it comes to mid-year changes, changes that were "just because" and things like that. THOSE guys have fun!
But I agree Ford guys don't have things easy. Hell, just the differences between the Windsor engines will keep you up at night if you're working w/them- at least until you're up to speed.
|01-25-2010 09:45 PM|
|DoubleVision||Lol. Not to worry on why GM some things that were weird. However, they were few enough to keep up with. Now, take Ford, they changed something every couple of years. I`m not a Ford guy but I got vast respect for those that are that could keep up with the constant changes they made. You gotta have a memory like a elephant to remember all of Fords changes.|
|01-25-2010 08:49 PM|
|zildjian4life218||wow thanks everyone! i wonder why gm did all these wierd inconsistent things.|
|01-25-2010 03:55 PM|
The casting numbers here are for production blocks manufactured from 1986 to the end of GenI/GenII production.
For 350 flat tappet blocks look for casting number 10054727, 14079287, 14088548, and 14101148.
Roller blocks are more complicated because even though the casting number indicates the block is provisioned for a roller cam, it doesn't for sure mean the block has a roller cam. But if so provisioned, a factory roller cam can be installed to one of these even if it currently has a flat tappet cam. For 350 roller tappet blocks look for casting numbers 10243880,14011148, 14088526, and 14093638 these can be a 2 or 4 bolt block. The 880 is the Vortec block it appears in mid 1995 production with swirl port heads and TBI and may have a flat tappet cam but is fully provisioned for a roller in all instances. It appears again in some 1996, 49 state vehicles with Vortec heads and TBI.
A problem you could encounter when hunting the wrecking yards and rebuilders is that there is a flat tappet block and a roller that both end with the numbers 148. 14101148 is a flat tappet truck block, 14011148 is a roller provisioned block.
|01-25-2010 03:01 PM|
I`m yet to bump into a 4 bolt Vortec block. I know they`re out there though.
I wonder if my luck happens to others. Last junkyard visit, I found two complete 880`s top to bottom with Vortec heads still intact and here I am unemployed so I couldn`t buy them. Had I still been employed, I would have snatched them both up. Used to be I bought every Vortec block I got my hands on, when I join the world of the working again, I plan to keep that going. On another interesting note, a friend of ours dropped off his truck to my bro in laws shop, he had another engine and wanted them swapped. We removed the Vortec 350, it had a cracked head on the passengers side.
Afterwards, he told us to keep the Vortec engine, so I popped the valve covers off to check the casting numbers, they were the 062`s, interesting was they had "hencho in mexico" on them. I was surprised to find they were mexico heads. When I caught up with the previous owner he said the heads had been swapped before when the truck had ran hot and cracked the heads but he didn`t know where the replacement heads came from. It made me wonder if they came from a dealer or from another source. When I did my first Vortec build for a friend of mine, we had the block bored .030, decked .010, Comp hydraulic roller cam with .215 duration, hyper flat top coated skirt pistons, .043 quench distance. RHS Vortec heads, Performer Vortec intake, SMI Quadrajet, headers, duals with flowmasters, Moroso spiral core wires, pertronix flame thrower coil and module, Fresh TH350, 2400 Tork master converter, 3.42 gears with posi. The results we got shocked us both. Stall it, release the brake, nail it to the floor, the rear goes down, the front end comes up. It pulls so hard upon launch it`s a rush when it slams you back in the seat. It hooks really well to be a stock suspension. wind it up and shift to 2nd and before you can blink your past 65 headed higher. I came up with the combo to be a low to mid range torque beast. And the cool part is, if you keep your foot out of it, it gets the same MPG his chevy colorado 5 cylinder pickup does. Were looking forward to doing more tuning when the weather permits then taking it to the strip to get a time on it in the spring. With a roller cam and vortec heads on a mild combo you can`t go wrong. That`s where I got my belief of once you go roller you never go back.
|01-25-2010 01:31 PM|
|Hippie||Just for reference my 350 came out of a '96 1-Ton van. It had TBI with '193 heads and a flat tappet cam. It's a 2 bolt main '880 block fully machined for a roller cam and mechanical fuel pump and it had the windage tray and oil cooler package. I also have a '97 L30 Vortec 305 that is fully machined for a mechanical pump.|
|01-25-2010 01:06 PM|
|cobalt327||FWIW, my Vortec engine is a 2-bolt, came w/062 heads. Maybe that's a way to "know" if the block is a 2- or 4-bolt? Prolly not, but I'd be interested to hear if anyone has a 4-bolt w/062 heads, or a 2-bolt w/906's.|
|01-25-2010 12:56 PM|
FWIW, most of the Vortec long blocks I buy have VERY little bore wear. They're always 4 bolt main blocks tht I get and as far as I can remember they are all 880 blocks. All they needed was a clean up and a quick hone job.
All were roller cam and I believe most were truck engines (906 heads).
If you can get one at a good deal (most I've paid is 350 for a long block) you can make 400+hp really cheaply. A rebuild kit, intake, carb, dizzy, and cam is about all else you'll need to add.
Most of the TBI stuff I saw was worn more, but it was also ran very hard, so that may have made the biggest difference.
|01-25-2010 12:52 PM|
|DoubleVision||I only use the Vortec blocks. Some of them do have the complete fuel pump boss ready to go and some of them don`t. I`ve seen them half complete. On my friends block we had to finish drilling the fuel pump pushrod hole and afterwards drill the return drain holes. There`s supposedly a kit online you can buy to completely drill and tap the assembly but last I looked it wasn`t cheap. I doubt there is much difference in terms of core shift and strength between the older and vortec blocks, far as I know the factory has never been very careful on those matters. But I have heard some say the Vortec block is far better and the material is better, but I kind of doubt there`s any truth to this, why is because you can get hundreds of thousands of miles out of a TBI engine just as you can a Vortec engine. I like the Vortec blocks because they have the roller cam and Windage tray. What I don`t like about them is you have to use a Cloyes Vortec timing chain set.|
|01-25-2010 12:47 PM|
One thing- not ALL the '87-up blocks are provisioned for roller cams. I have a '92 truck 5.7L engine w/swirl port TBI heads and NO bosses for the spider, no machined lifter bosses, no cam retainer bosses, etc. Not just untapped- un-there! lol
The breakdown goes like this (be aware there are ALWAYS exceptions):
For 350 flat tappet blocks look for casting number 10054727, 14079287, 14088548, and 14101148.
For 350 roller tappet blocks look for casting numbers 10243880, 14011148, 14088526, and 14093638.
There are '87-up blocks that have the full provisions for a mechanical fuel pump, but they're relatively rare. Most often they're the earlier blocks and blocks that are equipped w/flat tappet cams.
Something to watch out for: There's a flat tappet block AND a roller block that both end with the numbers 148. 14101148 is a flat tappet block, 14011148 is a roller block.
About the quickest way to tell if you are looking at a roller engine in the junk yard, is to pull a valve cover and remove a push rod. Flat tappet p-rods are about 7.8”, roller p-rods are much shorter at 7.2” long.
AFAIK, there's no 'good' and 'not as good' blocks, other than 2- and 4-bolt mains.
Hope this helps!
|01-25-2010 12:22 PM|
TBI vs Vortec Block
Hey Everyone! I have been looking at a bunch of different late model SBC 350 Gen 1 blocks lately and was wondering what the difference is between them in quality like core shift, power handling, and over all strength. When I refer to "late model" I am talking about 87'-up 1piece rear main seal blocks.
I know all late model blocks come with the option of a roller cam so both have the anchor points for the spider retainer. From what I have noticed cars got roller cams but trucks received flat tappet cams till the introduction of the vortec motor. I have also noticed that "880" or vortec blocks do not have the fuel pump pushrod hole drilled where the TBI blocks do. Are there any other things different between these blocks? Which one will hold more power etc...... Thanks in advance everyone!!!!