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advice on Singer 211

14K views 22 replies 5 participants last post by  rcurnow 
#1 ·
First let me introduce myself. My name is Grant and I live on the N.C. coast. I have built several cars including a chopped A, chopped 35 ford sedan delivery and have a chopped 35 ford roadster project in storage. I am in the process of putting a 60 bird convertible that was my dads back together. I have always wanted to learn to do my own interior work and have the time now to learn. I have read as much as I can on here with the search function and the singer 211 comes up as a good machine. I love the tip on the plaid material to practice on. I have found a used 211u166A at a clearance company. It is one of several machines used by a high end furniture company that has closed its doors. The clearance house says it is not a walking foot machine but all my "research" says it has presser feet. Are presser feet different then a walking foot or could the presser feet have been optional and this machine doesnt have them? I can pick the machine up for 300 dollars and this includes the table. I did check and the machine does have reverse.
Your advice and counsel is appreciated. thank you Grant
 
#3 · (Edited)
That machine is a compound feed machine, which in this case means it employs a combination of needle feed and drop feed. Needle feed means the needle pulls the material forward, and drop feed means it employs feed dogs to push the fabric forward. The machine has alternating presser feet, as does a walking foot machine, but not a walking foot, which means the foot lifts on the backward stroke. In other words, with the alternating presser feet one foot is holding the fabric down and the other foot is lifting off the fabric, and they alternate that way as the fabric goes through the machine. The walking foot feature helps push the fabric through the machine better, which is very important in sewing auto upholstery, specifically fabric with sew foam under it. The fact that it has compound feed and alternating presser feet is good, but if I were you, I would pass on this one and get a 111W (or one of it's clones) or 211W instead. The machine would be fine to do furniture upholstery.

Also, the price scares me. This machine should sell for a lot more than that. Is it just the machine head, or does that price include a table and motor? A table and motor will cost you $350 to $500 more.
 
#4 · (Edited)
thanks

Dan, the price includes the table. It is a clearing house that takes a companies assets and disposes of them. They have six of these machines and all have been on a maintenance contract. I have been given the name of the local company that did the work. At that price I am ahead to get it and learn on it and if a 211w head comes along to swap them out. I have followed your advice on this board and value it. Thank you for responding.
here is a link to a picture of the machine
http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh168/ncboat/sewing/Singer_211_6.jpg
 
#6 ·
thanks for the insight

Thank you. You have explained the feed on the machine better and in a more concise way then anyone else. I now understand why when I was trying to research the machine I got confused. Many forums equated presser feet and dogs to a walking foot which I now understand it is not. I have been unable to find a machine locally I can afford and the ones for sale on the net with a table cost as much to ship as the machine cost. You have provided me in a succinct way a plan forward and I appreciate that. I applaud your ability to assist others and have read a lot of your posts as a primer. This board is a great resource because of people like yourself and the others who contribute. Grant
 
#8 ·
proud owner

Dan I picked up the machine saturday. All in all the machine and table look great http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh168/ncboat/sewing/incoming480.jpg

It is a stepper motor machine and that also looks very good. With out a manual for the stepper I am not sure of the settings. Can you explain?
http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh168/ncboat/sewing/incoming482.jpg

They gave me a bunch of extras including extra feet and several packs of needles so I can practice. Following I think it was your advice I got some remnants to practice on..couldnt find plaid but I did get some with stripes to practice straight line sewing on. I have found the service manual online which gives me the adjustments and oiling points so now just have to find a guide. thanks for all the assistance . Grant
 
#9 · (Edited)
Is it a stepper motor or a servo motor, there is a difference?

A stepper motor could be used for a home machine that has different type stitching capabilities, but I am not familiar with any stepper motors that are used on industrial sewing machines.
 
#10 ·
motor

The technician I talked to said it was a stepper motor machine not a clutch motor if it had the sensor on the hand wheel connecting to the motor control. I guess in reality trying to answer your question is it looks like a servo motor and what I am looking at is the control panel for the motor control. There are two switchs along with the speed control and I was trying to figure out their function. This is like trying to play battleship when you dont have a manual. thanks for your patience. Grant
 
#11 ·
There's not a lot of difference between steppers and servos, they both are constant torque variable speed devices, but generally servos are a little smoother. A stepper would need the feedback to make it a closed loop system.

If I were you, because it was used for upholstery work, I wouldn't try to adjust anything and just use it like it is.
 
#13 ·
"I believe a walking foot would have a "w" instead of a "u""

The "u" signifies that the Singer machine was made in Japan, a "w" would show that it was made in USA and a "g" would denote a machine manufactured in Germany. The only way to tell if a machine has walking foot (without actually seeing it) is to have the complete model number and check the instruction manual or some other reference for that specific model.

Ed
 
#14 ·
practice practice practice

I appreciate all the help now I just have to practice. I have tried a few passes and it is quiet and the speed is fine for me. I have decided the switchs on the control box are one: to set the needle height and depth which should not need to be adj unless there is some problem and second: whether you want a soft start or regular. I am leaving them where they are with a nod to Don on his sage advice. Now I am trying to learn about needle designations and thread...gotta love it. Grant
 
#15 ·
All you have to remember about needles is that your needle system is 135X17, and there are a number of different size needles available from about size 18 to size 24. The smaller the number the smaller the diameter of the needle shaft.
 
#16 ·
needles

Dan, thanks you have confirmed what I was thinking. The singer designations seem to be the ones commonly referred to. I am a little confused because the needles they gave me say 135x5 130/21 and the other is 135/16 140/22. I believe these are a 21 and a 22 needle but were they using the wrong needles since they are not 135/17? Thank you for all the links to different sites in your messages, I have bookmarked several and the discussion on thread is very insightfull. The loaded bobbins I got with the machine are dymo size D. How does a size D thread relate to say 69 or 92? Where do you order your consumables (thread, needles etc) from. Grant
 
#17 · (Edited)
Your machine is a 211 U 166, right? The 211 U 157 uses the 135 X 5 needle system, and all the other 211s use 135 X 17. This is the needle system, and not the needle size. The 140/22 and 130/21 needles you have are the needle size. One is a size 21 and the other a size 22, with the first number being the metric designation.

I think you mean Nymo bobbins, not Dymo, right? I don't know what the "D" means. Pre-wound bobbins come in size "G" and "M". G is about 7/8" in diameter, and M is about 1" in diameter. The bobbin should tell you what size bobbin it is and what size thread it has. In other words, it should say G 69, G92, G138, or M69, M92, and M138. Those are the only sizes of pre-wound bobbins I have ever come across.

I buy my thread and bobbins from a local supplier that only sells to upholstery shops.
 
#20 · (Edited)
Thanks Dan, but I already have this particular manual. The problem is that it pertains to the automatic features of a 211A, different from an older 21A567AB. I have found several manuals that describe other models that are very similar, but don't specifically cover the 211A567AB. The main differences seem to be the way the machines are lubricated. The closest model seems to be the 211G266. This is based on the illustrations in the manual.

I am new to commercial sewing machines, only recently buying a used one. The tensions were screwed up and it caused the bobbin to bind up and change the needle timing. I have adjusted the timing using specs from other models, but it isn't quite right. The bottom stitch still bunches up. I have adjusted the needle tension all over the map, and can't get it right. Manually pulling on both threads seem to be equal.

Do you suppose I should use the setup instructions and procedures for the 211G266 and other similar models to maintain my machine?
 
#21 ·
The timing and tension of your machine are not just specific to that model. Tension and timing are as basic as it gets and are the same for dozens of different model numbers. My hunch is you may have a part or parts in your machine that have worn and are more the cause for your problems. If you bought this machine used, you should take it to a sewing machine mechanic and have it looked at, timed, and repaired if necessary. Make sure you have a new needle installed correctly. Is the thread you're using old? If it came with the machine, throw it away and buy some new thread, especially if there are no labels on the spool to tell you what the thread is.

Another problem could be at the bobbin case, where your bottom tension is located. Replace your bobbin case with a new one and see if that helps to solve the problem. When the bobbin case is out, see if there's anything under it like some old pieces of thread that need to be cleaned out.

In any case, take the machine to a pro and have it looked over, it will be the best money you can spend on the machine.
 
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