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Topic Review (Newest First)
07-06-2014 07:48 AM
deadbodyman Welcome to the site WPJ,
I think we ALL have learnd something from this thread.For me its brought up a few things I wasnt aware of and its made me refine my own methods slightly and pay even more attention to what I am doing when removing rust or prepping metal, which is something everyone should be doing more of...Then testing the adhesion of the epoxy before getting started with the filler work...
All the warnings also made me worry a lot more but I had faith in it and knew it worked, so they just made me use it more wisely and I've learnd more about the product itself too, I can only imagine how scary it would be for someone using it for the first time...It doesnt need to be ...Thats one reason for the thread,I'm here to help like I stated a few years ago and I'm still here and dont intend on going anywhere besides its always nice to know theres someone to contact if theres any questions that arise I'm a phone call away...so its not like I made a bunch of ridiculous claims I couldnt back up then when problems pop up I disappear...
Removing rust and keeping it at bay is a hot topic because its everybodys first problem and #1 major concern when restoring or even painting a car and nobody that cares about the work they're doing wants to see it come right back and theres a lot of snake oil products out there and repackaged products whose only concern is making money and make ridiculous claims
Ospho has been around been around since the 40s so its proven itself over and over...
My hope is to put peoples minds at ease who want to remove rust and keep it at bay using this method or to include it in they're metal prep proceedure..
07-05-2014 09:54 PM
WPJ Well, I don't have decades of painting experience, but in the short time I've been in the business I've learned one thing about paint manufacturers... they want you to use their products only from start to finish. So it is easy to see why they say there might be adhesion problems with other acid preps.
I'm a firm believer in listening to other people and making up my own mind. When someone has used a product for decades, and has a 20 year old project that is holding up well using his methods, I become real attentive. Heck, a lot of production paint jobs don't last that long.
I don't understand why deadbodyman has to constantly repeat himself to the doubters when he has shown his proof, and the doubters won't take the time to test his system (and then rebut if it doesn't work).
Over the past two days I've read this entire thread (40 pages), and I've not read one legitimate rebuttal except "go by the data sheets". That is an excellent idea, especially if you want peace of mind.
DBM has stated very clearly that this thread is about Ospho only, not the other acid products that everyone else keeps bringing up as proof that he is wrong.
And if someone wants to try Ospho, why not do it exactly as DBM lays it out?? How can you test the system if you don't follow the steps in the system?
I'm very cautious with my paint because I don't know a lot, and I want the finished product to be perfect, and last a long time. But, I'm sure I can find a rusty panel that isn't important and try this out. I'm also sure that I WILL try it out. If I have problems, I will discuss them with DBM to see what may have gone wrong, this gives him every opportunity to make sure it wasn't something I did wrong. Pretty sensible to me.
End of rant.
06-26-2014 09:59 AM
67Elcamino I hear you.. I was once a programmer/systems analysts and these applications still challenge me.
06-26-2014 05:34 AM
deadbodyman LOL,no I'm still using the Ospho to fight rust...This computor stuff is kicking my butt though.
06-25-2014 05:11 PM
67Elcamino
Quote:
Originally Posted by deadbodyman View Post
I'll have to try something different I down loaded them on streetfire.net and they keep getting deleted...I'll work on that..any suggestions???? I have a few more rust vidios to add also...
Scared the crap out of me!! .. Im following your thread and then noticed your statement ' I'll have to try something different ...' LOL
06-23-2014 07:06 AM
deadbodyman
Quote:
Originally Posted by 243 View Post
I re-finished a CJ over the last five years taking everything down to bare metal with a combination of wire wheels, flap discs and some media blasting. I had access to both sides of the sheet metal in almost every case, so take the fenders for example.

After I had the fenders down to bare metal, they were stored inside my house and when I was ready to prime, I washed them down with W&G remover and sprayed them with SPI epoxy primer. They were returned to the dining room and piece by piece, I repaired the dents with Evercoat and finished up with SPI 2K primer and they went back to the dining room. Once I painted the tub, I took the pieces outside to my homemade booth and sprayed them with DBC and followed up with SPI universal clear.

Here is the kicker, after about a year I see rust warts, right on the front face of the fender and all over the fenderwell.

Even though any traces of rust were encapsulated by the epoxy primer, the rust continued to grow.

My thought is I need to use a product to kill the remaining rust, or technically convert it. I have read this thread several times and I see pros and cons to both sides but I also see a Jeep I spent five years building and it has rust warts. I bought a gallon of Ospho and plan to use it on body panels but I am still on the fence as to leaving it on and priming over it after sanding, washing it off the same day; or, applying a second coat, washing it off and priming.

And, would I be better off using straight 2K with acid coated steel or stick to epoxy primer?

Here is a link to similar questions I had earlier in regards to my Cherokee project and treating rust in inaccessible locations. There are a lot of pictures posted specifically about the fenders and the effort I took to slow down the rust. It is quite a let down to work so hard and have rust return so soon.

http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/solu...es-276466.html
Stick with the epoxy SPI works best for me....look at it this way if you sprayed epoxy over rust nothing will stop it from popping its ugly head up later on...I keep telling people that epoxy alone wont stop the rust it HAS to be stopped on a microscopic level....sand blasting wont stop it either ,blasting is just another way to get the paint off it does nothing to stop rust...extra sanding wont do much either...when you work with rust long enough you realize phosphric acid is the cure to stopping rust other than that , storing you car in a vacume sealed container is about it...
leave the Ospho on ,when you ready to prime clean the panel with a solvent based W&G then a water based w&G THEN sand it with 80 then 180 if you really feel energetic go to 320 ,clean again with both W&G's,spray 2 good wet coats of epoxy and let it sit for a week ....after a week,before doing anything else, test it to be sure the epoxy has adheared well.... to do this is ez just try scraping the epoxy off the metal with a razor scraper...if you did everything right all you will do is put dig marks in the epoxy if its not right you'll scrape the epoxy off in long sheets...simple
06-22-2014 04:20 PM
Chevymon
Quote:
Originally Posted by 243 View Post
I bought a gallon of Ospho and plan to use it on body panels but I am still on the fence as to leaving it on and priming over it after sanding, washing it off the same day; or, applying a second coat, washing it off and priming.
Wire brushing, as you already suspect, does make the metal look clean when it fact it is just polished. And with the panels off the car, there is no reason for not totally removing the rust on both sides of the panels. It is also very easy to rinse the ospho off those loose panels, after it has done its job of removing the rust.

I leave phosphoric acid on the metal for long term rust protection, but when its time to paint it gets reactivated and rinsed off, so I can apply a quality epoxy on clean metal. I have left it on and painted over it, just for testing purposes, but that was with PPGs DPLF epoxy sprayed over it, and that is one epoxy that recommends using phosphoric acid first.

Even that panel had all the rust completely removed, and it has held up very well, but actually all you could check is adhesion, not much risk from rust. I haven't seen any need to leave the acid, so didn't pursue that approach, even before changing to SPI.
06-22-2014 11:37 AM
243 I re-finished a CJ over the last five years taking everything down to bare metal with a combination of wire wheels, flap discs and some media blasting. I had access to both sides of the sheet metal in almost every case, so take the fenders for example.

After I had the fenders down to bare metal, they were stored inside my house and when I was ready to prime, I washed them down with W&G remover and sprayed them with SPI epoxy primer. They were returned to the dining room and piece by piece, I repaired the dents with Evercoat and finished up with SPI 2K primer and they went back to the dining room. Once I painted the tub, I took the pieces outside to my homemade booth and sprayed them with DBC and followed up with SPI universal clear.

Here is the kicker, after about a year I see rust warts, right on the front face of the fender and all over the fenderwell.

Even though any traces of rust were encapsulated by the epoxy primer, the rust continued to grow.

My thought is I need to use a product to kill the remaining rust, or technically convert it. I have read this thread several times and I see pros and cons to both sides but I also see a Jeep I spent five years building and it has rust warts. I bought a gallon of Ospho and plan to use it on body panels but I am still on the fence as to leaving it on and priming over it after sanding, washing it off the same day; or, applying a second coat, washing it off and priming.

And, would I be better off using straight 2K with acid coated steel or stick to epoxy primer?

Here is a link to similar questions I had earlier in regards to my Cherokee project and treating rust in inaccessible locations. There are a lot of pictures posted specifically about the fenders and the effort I took to slow down the rust. It is quite a let down to work so hard and have rust return so soon.

http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/solu...es-276466.html
05-09-2014 05:35 AM
deadbodyman Scared me for a second there.
05-08-2014 06:24 PM
AdamPrince2
Quote:
Originally Posted by crashtech View Post
The MSDS for Ospho does not mention any dichromate compounds, but their literature does, so it's not clear to me if it actually contains dichromate. But for the curious, here is a link to the sodium dichromate wiki page, as well as a link to the hexavalent chromium page (sodium dichromate is a member of the hexavalent chrome family). It's sobering reading.
I was also concerned about the mention of sodium dichromate in Ospho's marketing literature and absence on the MSDS. So I contacted the maker of Ospho: Skybryte Company. Here is their reply:

"Dear Mr. Prince.

The sodium dichromate is present at below 0.10% (one tenth of one percent) which OSHA does not feel is a significant quantity to represent any sort of health hazard and should NOT be listed on the MSDS.

Please let me know if you need additional info.


Stephen L. Pitcher
Technical Director "

I hope someone finds this information I have gathered useful.
-Adam Prince
Crisp Line Metal
09-01-2013 05:59 PM
Lizer
Quote:
Originally Posted by shine View Post
gerson is not sold here so i use 3m . maybe 2 dollars difference in cost from what i can see. the main point is these mask have about a 40 hour life . i've seen so many guys who have had a mask for months laying in the garage .
.
I completely agree. I don't think most people are aware of the shelf life, the need to keep them sealed religiously, or the need to replace often. I see so many masks just hanging on a nail in shops.

These masks are really important in my profession too for protection from infectious substances. We wear them when going to farms with disease outbreaks in confined areas or when working with diseased animals in experimental conditions.
09-01-2013 05:50 PM
Lizer
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chevymon View Post
I guess thats fine if its the same number, but I don't see that number on Harbor Freight. I just wouldn't want someone buying a gerson at HF and expecting it to be good for iso, when it might be another number.
You're right, I don't see the part number on the HF website. I guess I must have cross referenced the part number by getting it from Arlo's post.

I completely agree though...if I was buying it from HF and did not have the part number so I could look up the stats on the respirator, I prob wouldn't buy it. Especially because it is HF. But now we can put this to bed because we all know what the actual Gerson number is and know it's a legit respirator.
09-01-2013 05:44 PM
shine you can wrap a towel around your head if you like lizer . i really dont care. i use 3m because it is sold here. i have nothing against gerson but they are not sold around here. but i do know about paint and the damage it can do . that is why i use a hood .
09-01-2013 05:30 PM
Chevymon
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lizer View Post
This is the same respirator as what he's buying at HF.
I guess thats fine if its the same number, but I don't see that number on Harbor Freight. I just wouldn't want someone buying a gerson at HF and expecting it to be good for iso, when it might be another number.
09-01-2013 05:06 PM
shine gerson is not sold here so i use 3m . maybe 2 dollars difference in cost from what i can see. the main point is these mask have about a 40 hour life . i've seen so many guys who have had a mask for months laying in the garage .
i prefer my bullard hoods . disposable and relatively cheap.
used gerson tack rags for years but they got too sticky and left residue .
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