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Topic Review (Newest First)
Today 05:05 AM
deadbodyman the method of application electro static,dipped ,sprayed or even brushed on doesn't matter the epoxy is on the cars.I made the mistake of saying sprayed and a few got hung up on the one word what I should have wrote would be the factory APPLIED epoxy because theres no special primer for dipping cars, its not called dipping primer. therefor calling a primer electrostatic primer would be just as ridiculus since its just a method of application done by creating an electrical charge on the object being painted and opposite charge in the paint or primer since like charges oppose and opposite charges attract very much like the n pole of a magnet attracts the south pole and north to north repel...run down to the paint store and ask for electro static primer ,once they stop laughing tell us what the first two questions they asked. then tell them you want to dip some parts in primer so you would like sme dipping primer with it. that should pretty much make their day...
Yesterday 05:04 PM
Lizer
The Ospho Solution..(rust removal)

Quote:
Originally Posted by roger1 View Post
I was talking exterior panels here. I think that's where the discussion was. Do you think any of the automobile manufacturers have/are using any epoxy primer on exterior panels?

I don't think they actually have anything on them, not even electrostatic. Bare galvanized steel. At least that's the way the panels were we received from GM in the paint and body schooling I did. I still have a fender hanging up in my shop. It's to a early 2000's Malibu. Back side has been in bare metal for probably 10-15 years and not rusted.

But I'm not an expert.


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Yesterday 04:47 PM
deadbodyman
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chevymon View Post
It sounds like you are giving advice for a collision shop job that only needs to last a couple of years, and if Barry printed your advice on the tech sheet, he would sell a lot more shops on his epoxy.

For maximum adhesion, reduced epoxy shouldn't be used on bare metal, and 80 grit DA scratches are easily covered with SPI epoxy.

I think you know better than what you are posting here, so I don't want to waste any more time on this.
I don't even know how many times I've said that 2 coats of epoxy will cover 80 scratches 20-30 on this thread alone? I got the reduced epoxy as a sealer over bare metal and right to paint directly from Barry K himself except he said it could be reduced up to 40% I've done it ,it works, no waiting ,the epoxy is ready to paint in 30 minutes to an hour after spraying over bare metal and your right it is NOT something you want to do on your resto but like I said not every car IS a resto and doing a collision job at the resto quality would be the wrong way just as doing restos in the production way would be the wrong way , you'd be out of business in months if you did. different cars HAVE to be done different ways it all depends on the car, for instance some need to be stripped to the metal and some don't some need to be primed from bumper to bumper and blocked lazer straight ,some don't they only need primer in a few spots.
Yesterday 04:40 PM
roger1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lizer View Post
Some parts are dipped in epoxy. And SPI has been OEM for several manufacturers, either past or present.
I was talking exterior panels here. I think that's where the discussion was. Do you think any of the automobile manufacturers have/are using any epoxy primer on exterior panels?
Yesterday 04:31 PM
roger1
Quote:
Originally Posted by deadbodyman View Post
Holly sheet what an idiot....but even an idiot can be learned from and all opinions are certainly welcome ...I don't push anything. I do recommend good quality products that work best at the cheapest price. I also recommend efficient and sometimes new ways to use them . its the newbies I started this for not xxxholes like you, anyone that's pm'd me has gotten my tel number for any problems and cures they come across but you wouldn't know that either....I suggest you offer something of substance on you next post Im not one you want to start sheet with...responding to this kind of idiotic BS has already taken too much of my time .....and if you took a second you'd realize I only respond when someone has a question...I do appoligize to our members and administrators that want to learn for getting off topic....I hope I wasn't too harsh....
Somehow it doesn't surprise me that you took this to name calling. I won't engage in that. I just stick to facts and discuss them.
Yesterday 04:25 PM
deadbodyman
Quote:
Originally Posted by roger1 View Post
This post just shows that your really don't know very much about basic prep procedures. Sanding metal with 80 grit does not "scratch the heck out of it". Two coats of SPI epoxy primer and the scratches in the metal are covered. I guess you've never done it or you wouldn't have said what you did. With conviction too.

It has bothered me from the near the very start of this thread that you push yourself as an expert with procedures that are so far off from what is accepted practice. This thread should have been closed long ago.

Not that I care what you do and what you push. It's the unsuspecting novice hobbyist that reads your stuff that I'm concerned about.
Holly sheet what an idiot....but even an idiot can be learned from and all opinions are certainly welcome ...I don't push anything. I do recommend good quality products that work best at the cheapest price. I also recommend efficient and sometimes new ways to use them . its the newbies I started this for not xxxholes like you, anyone that's pm'd me has gotten my tel number for any problems and cures they come across but you wouldn't know that either....I suggest you offer something of substance on you next post Im not one you want to start sheet with...responding to this kind of idiotic BS has already taken too much of my time .....and if you took a second you'd realize I only respond when someone has a question...I do appoligize to our members and administrators that want to learn for getting off topic....I hope I wasn't too harsh....
Yesterday 03:15 PM
Lizer
Quote:
Originally Posted by roger1 View Post
Shows again how you don't know.

The factory uses electrostatic primer.
Some parts are dipped in epoxy. And SPI has been OEM for several manufacturers, either past or present.
Yesterday 12:39 PM
Chevymon Sounds like a good system---you're getting enough build but not more than necessary.
Yesterday 09:38 AM
67Elcamino Im a novice and dont take any one's comments as the 'how to' process alone. I like gathering advice and trying out those methods and only myself can determine what worked best and/or drawing my own conclusion.

I hope all other novice's out there are doing the same.
Deadbodyman has provided some great help for me with his recommendations in the past.
Ive been stripping metal with 80grit paper then 2-3 coats of SPI Epoxy, followed by a contrasting color Polyester primer for build. I work the small imperfections and blocking with the Polyester. Once I start seeing the contrasting color Epoxy in the bottom I stop, shoot more Poly, over and over until Im satisfied. Ive been surprised myself how straight my projects have came out using this method.
Yesterday 06:40 AM
roger1
Quote:
Originally Posted by deadbodyman View Post
absolutely.
Shows again how you don't know.

The factory uses electrostatic primer.
Yesterday 06:37 AM
Chevymon It sounds like you are giving advice for a collision shop job that only needs to last a couple of years, and if Barry printed your advice on the tech sheet, he would sell a lot more shops on his epoxy.

For maximum adhesion, reduced epoxy shouldn't be used on bare metal, and 80 grit DA scratches are easily covered with SPI epoxy.

I think you know better than what you are posting here, so I don't want to waste any more time on this.
Yesterday 06:36 AM
roger1
Quote:
Originally Posted by deadbodyman View Post
also true,thats what the instructions on the can says....the instructions also "used" to say DONT use acid products on the metal (the main reason I started this thread) Think about it......lets say I have a brand new after market hood with that crappy black primer on it,its so thin it sands right off with 320.should I sand it of with 80 and scratch the heck out of it and put 80 scratches in it that will just have to be filled AND sanded again? NO,absolutely NOT ,I sand that primer off with 320 and spray my SPI epoxy reduced like a sealer then go right to paint.why make all that extra work when you don't need too. remember your filler lessons "if theres no sand scratches to begin with" theres no scratches that'll comeback in the paint.NEVER rely on the primer to do your filling for you.....
Also remember media blasting is NOT a good idea if the car is not completely takin apart...and not every car is a long term resto ,some are only in the shop a couple days.
This post just shows that your really don't know very much about basic prep procedures. Sanding metal with 80 grit does not "scratch the heck out of it". Two coats of SPI epoxy primer and the scratches in the metal are covered. I guess you've never done it or you wouldn't have said what you did. With conviction too.

It has bothered me from the near the very start of this thread that you push yourself as an expert with procedures that are so far off from what is accepted practice. This thread should have been closed long ago.

Not that I care what you do and what you push. It's the unsuspecting novice hobbyist that reads your stuff that I'm concerned about.
Yesterday 05:57 AM
deadbodyman
Quote:
Originally Posted by roger1 View Post
The instructions for SPI epoxy are clear.
Sand metal with a D/A and 80 grit.

Where I can't get to with a D/A, I think the finish that a media blast leaves is good too. I use Black Diamond media.
also true,thats what the instructions on the can says....the instructions also "used" to say DONT use acid products on the metal (the main reason I started this thread) Think about it......lets say I have a brand new after market hood with that crappy black primer on it,its so thin it sands right off with 320.should I sand it of with 80 and scratch the heck out of it and put 80 scratches in it that will just have to be filled AND sanded again? NO,absolutely NOT ,I sand that primer off with 320 and spray my SPI epoxy reduced like a sealer then go right to paint.why make all that extra work when you don't need too. remember your filler lessons "if theres no sand scratches to begin with" theres no scratches that'll comeback in the paint.NEVER rely on the primer to do your filling for you.....
Also remember media blasting is NOT a good idea if the car is not completely takin apart...and not every car is a long term resto ,some are only in the shop a couple days.
Yesterday 05:41 AM
deadbodyman
Quote:
Originally Posted by 67Elcamino View Post
DeadBodyman, My concern now if how I can get rid of the minor black freckles left on the paint. I was hoping that these spots, which were there before the ospho treatment, were already there. Theyre a PITA to take off and was hoping I didnt have to grind them off the entire car?

Any opinion on this? Im I over thinking this?
you mean the black freckles on the metal? right? I've run into this many times when stripping old cars and theres many opinions on the cause ..I believe they are caused by water getting in the system while priming,many shops and DIY's pay little attention to a good clean,dry air supply during the body work and priming process..I've actually seen this at a few shops I've worked at where there is so much water in the air its like a pressure washer,most bodymen will just let the air run until the water stops coming out of the hose and then prime but if you were to hold the blower up to glass you see the water is still in there. so much for the cause ....as for the cure?
I wouldn't loose to much sleep with those freckles ...
usually two applications of Ospho ,scrubbed in with a red scotch brite does pretty good then when you sand it all that's left is basicly a stain that can be primed,trying to chase all those freckles down is a losing battle ,I've never had them come back or cause any problems in the paint later on...
Yesterday 05:20 AM
deadbodyman
Quote:
Originally Posted by roger1 View Post
The factory sprays epoxy???
absolutely.
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