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Problems With Finish...

4K views 32 replies 7 participants last post by  Mfoehrkolb 
#1 ·
Hello ALL! I have been trolling the forums for a while and i painted a car a week ago... I ran into 2 problems...


The hood had like 2 streaks in it... (I am assuming it was not enough overlapping)

The other was...

The doors had like a "sandy" look to them... They felt smooth, but... looked sandy. I tried wet sanding it and it didn't improve much.

Anyone know why the 2nd problem arrose and if my assumption was correct for the 1st one?


This is the car i painted after wetsanding and buffing...
 
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#4 ·
I wouldnt worry about a Sata right now, Devilbis has some great guns at 150.00- 200.00
The streaks in your hood can be eliminated by X 'ing or cris crossing the pattern on the last couple coats of base (Nason is bad about streaking but its easily solved...

The sandy look is most likely dry spray or over spray from the roof it can br fixed by lightly sanding with 400 and recoated with a couple more caots of base...before clearing...
BUT ...the car looks pretty darn good to me. all you need is a little more experiance laying down base... Nason is kinda tough to be starting off with for all the reasons you described....Chroma base is more expensive but much easier to use...

I'd get a devilbis gun for my next job ,That might just cure ALL your problems.. :thumbup:
 
#5 ·
deadbodyman said:
I wouldnt worry about a Sata right now, Devilbis has some great guns at 150.00- 200.00
The streaks in your hood can be eliminated by X 'ing or cris crossing the pattern on the last couple coats of base (Nason is bad about streaking but its easily solved...

The sandy look is most likely dry spray or over spray from the roof it can br fixed by lightly sanding with 400 and recoated with a couple more caots of base...before clearing...
BUT ...the car looks pretty darn good to me. all you need is a little more experiance laying down base... Nason is kinda tough to be starting off with for all the reasons you described....Chroma base is more expensive but much easier to use...

I'd get a devilbis gun for my next job ,That might just cure ALL your problems.. :thumbup:

--- I spoke to my local paint dealer, they are real cool there. I was telling him about my problems and the set up i am using... He said it simply sounds like i am just running the gun too dry...

He said psi for the guns i have are all with in spec and he said along with running it dry, red isn't the easiest color to cover with.

but... i am painting another car tomorrow so... ima try again but run the needle further out so put down more paint.

keep you all informed.

he also rec. the guns he has for sale there... a Sharpe Finex 3000 it kinda reminds me of the harbor freight guns...
 
#7 ·
Underground said:
screw your fluid tip in all the way( you wont be able to pull the trigger). Now back it out 2 1/2 turns. You should be go to go. Then it will just be MINOR adjustments from there.
--- Is that just a general rule of thumb for all guns? Idk how mine is set exactly, but when i sprayed the car... i was afraid of the runs and what not... so i turned the fliud amount down so it came out as like a finer mist... im still new to the painting scene (i went to school for it years ago and im just getting back into it) and just have to get used to laying it down thicker.
 
#8 ·
Mfoehrkolb said:
--- Is that just a general rule of thumb for all guns? Idk how mine is set exactly, but when i sprayed the car... i was afraid of the runs and what not... so i turned the fliud amount down so it came out as like a finer mist... im still new to the painting scene (i went to school for it years ago and im just getting back into it) and just have to get used to laying it down thicker.
Yes. Basically what you have done is limit your film thickness and you are not getting coverage. You need to set the gun here and adjust your painting speed. If you were afraid of getting runs, it sounds like YOU need to speed up. There are some adjustments that you will have to make to your TECHNIQUE. The gun can only be adjusted so much. You don't want to be in the booth painting for 2 hours just to get one coat on. Don't be afraid of getting a run, it can be fixed easily enough. That is how you will get experience. Learn from your mistakes. It is just PAINT.
 
#9 ·
Underground said:
Yes. Basically what you have done is limit your film thickness and you are not getting coverage. You need to set the gun here and adjust your painting speed. If you were afraid of getting runs, it sounds like YOU need to speed up. There are some adjustments that you will have to make to your TECHNIQUE. The gun can only be adjusted so much. You don't want to be in the booth painting for 2 hours just to get one coat on. Don't be afraid of getting a run, it can be fixed easily enough. That is how you will get experience. Learn from your mistakes. It is just PAINT.
--- i sprayed a mk4 jetta today, and i adjusted more aggressively. I set it how you said, but it was still too thin.

I think i have the material setting 3.5-4 turns out... the fan is about 8-10 in high... I still had to slow down some (slower than i would like to move naturally) and my psi was at 40 closed and 34-35 open.

i used chromasysteme 99k black, and nason panel clear.

As long as i slowed down i had good coverage and good layout. Seemed a bit orange peely but thats to be expected with the guns i am using.

Nothing that cant be sanded out. No runs on the car and no streaks...


The only problem i had was some body work on the trunk i can still see kinda...

I did the finishing apoxy, then i sealed it, and bc, cc...

I didnt have any primer left to primer it, so i just sealed it... you cant see the apoxy but you can see like... the lines from where it ended and met (even knowing... it was perfectly smooth to the touch) i had it blended perfectly.
 
#10 ·
That sounds like your gun. You can't expect to get good results from cheap equipment. Jump up to a Devilbis and those problems will go away. I shot with a Sata for years, But used a Devilbis Plus at my last job. It will be my next gun. Don't get me wrong, I still use my Satas, but I wont BUY another one. The Devilbis actually shot better and was HALF the price. I spray fast and love the way the Satas are. Once I tried the Devilbis, I was VERY impressed. I wish I would have tried them before I bought my last Sata :pain: !
 
#11 ·
Yup.... Agreed...Devilbis is a great gun.After useing Satas and Iwatas for for the last fifteen years and swearing by them ,I used a devilbis a couple weeks ago and really loved it ...It'll be my next gun too...Satas are great for every day use and hold up for a couple years but if your only going to paint occationally get a devilbis....just as good....
My style is ,fluid set wide open and go like heck ,use the trigger to adjust the flow,for edges and and lighter stuff...
Spend a little cash (at least a 150.00) on a devilbis and you'll know its not the gun giving you grief....
Runs...(flow indicators) are good ...you have to walk on the edge of getting runs when you paint so if you dont go over the edge you'll never know where the edge is.

Lay it down just like you want it to look....and go like he'll.....No sand,No buff...Except for the really nice stuff (show jobs)...
 
#16 ·
Rix-Trix said:
It kind of sounds like not enough air pressure to me. Sounds like the paint is not atomizing enough and spraying balls of paint. When you slow down and put more product on, you get deep orange peel.

Adjust for more air pressure.
what doesn't sound like enough air, 34-35psi? depending on what gun, The devilbis plus runs at 28-30 and my Sata ran at 27-29. I think some of the Iwata's are run at 20 or a little less. The days of the 40+ psi are long gone.
 
#18 ·
Is that the siphon feed? If it is, thats why. That and it's a SHARPE :evil: . Siphons tend to take more air. And I've always tended to have to run higher pressure with my Sharpes. I have the Titanium. And matter of fact I think I have a 998 that I got back in 1997. If that is the same gun, that is ANOTHER reason. HLVP technology has come ALONG way since then. Look it up. 98% gravity feed HLVPs take less than 40 psi. And your HIGHER quality take less than 30.
 
#19 · (Edited)
The SATA 3000RP and HLVP are 29 psi while there siphon feed guns are 36 psi. The Iwata lph400-lv and lvx are 16 psi and their lph400-lvb is 14! But their siphon pressure cup lph200p and lvp are 28 psi. Your cheaper guns like Harbor Freight HVLP gun take WAY more air. It all depends on the quality and efficiency of the gun. Higher psi causes more overspray, thus a less efficient gun.
 
#20 ·
Yes it is the siphon feed. I am an old dog, I started painting with conventional guns and that is why when I bought it I went for the siphon feed, have never cared for the gravity feed.

The results seem to be consistent with not enough air pressure making balls with the paint not atomizing enough and he said it looked rough but was not to the touch, if it was dry spray he would feel it rough
 
#22 ·
For some reason i stopped recieving emails for this thread i made... thought nobody was responding...


This is the car i just sprayed the other day with the HF purple gun... 35 psi. dupont chromasystem bc and dupont nason 497-00 overall clear.






--
---
---- I actually had a potential customer want me to paint his car, and he told me he has "hook ups" with Sata. He can basically get me any gun i want. In order to help pay for the paint job...

So... I was thinking about the satajet 3000b... He said he also could get debviles... so he told me to give him a parts list, and he will see what he can do.

What guns would you guys suggest? (these would be used for bc/cc)
Or if its a cheaper gun i can get 2 and use 1 for bc and 1 for cc.
 
#23 ·
I personally would go with a Devilbis. I would put the Devilbis Plus up against a Sata 3000 ANY day. AND this is coming from a die-hard Sata fan! They are almost half the price. So you could get 2 or just get one and put more money in your pocket ;) That Devilbis will be MY next gun.
 
#24 ·
I don't have a dog in this fight beacuse all I have used is Sata since going HVLP. I did a bad thing and got a Sata 3000RP digital and love the finish I get from it but it isn't HVLP. The 496-00 is a quick drying clear and only suited for panel repairs, at least in my opinion. The last time I used it was on some parts for a bullet bike and it was dry way too quick for my taste. I was spraying at 39 psi from my 3000RP to get a nice finish and that resulted in a big ole cloud in the booth. I've stepped up to Southern Polyurethane universal clear and won't use any other clear now.
 
#25 ·
cyclopsblown34 said:
. I did a bad thing and got a Sata 3000RP digital and love the finish I get from it but it isn't HVLP.
Why is that a bad thing. The only thing I can see you did "bad" was spending the extra money on a digital instead of a non-digital. I have heard and seen lots of the digitals turn black and stop working. To me the digital guage isn't worth the added expense. Besides the RP will give you a slicker finish FASTER than a HVLP. AND it doesn't use anymore paint.
 
#26 ·
cyclopsblown34 said:
I don't have a dog in this fight beacuse all I have used is Sata since going HVLP. I did a bad thing and got a Sata 3000RP digital and love the finish I get from it but it isn't HVLP. The 496-00]/b] is a quick drying clear and only suited for panel repairs, at least in my opinion. The last time I used it was on some parts for a bullet bike and it was dry way too quick for my taste. I was spraying at 39 psi from my 3000RP to get a nice finish and that resulted in a big ole cloud in the booth. I've stepped up to Southern Polyurethane universal clear and won't use any other clear now.


--- I didn't use 496, i used 497. 496 is a panel/spot repair clear, and 497 is a overall, large panel repair clear.

As for a gun for me... I am still new to this painting game, and haven't used any high quality gun yet. It's all whatever is available to the customer who has a sata connection.
 
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