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Topic Review (Newest First)
07-01-2010 01:10 PM
77'Omega
Quote:
Originally Posted by 77'Omega
with 454 injectors you will wash out the rings.....
......454 injectors put out way too much fuel. i tried a 454 tbi system on a 327 and all i got was a trashed engine,
it ran like crap so i was just going to drive it to town,eat and drive home and by the time i was headed back (KNOCK,KNOCK,KNOCK,SLAM,SLAM,SLAM) and that was all she wrote. I like to experiment but im not trying that again! and i just thought i would fore warn you. and the Throttle body it self isnt that great even if you just wanted to run your injectors on it, none of them give that nice even spread the aftermarket ones are designed to do.
07-01-2010 01:04 PM
77'Omega with 454 injectors you will wash out the rings and get a programmer that will reprogram the o2 sensors if not available you can get a programmer that omits one but this could have a negative efect on performance,its better to have functioning O2 sensors with a engine code than no sencors at all, plus an engine code doesn't always mean its not working,its just out of the computers factory acceptance spec. Hell advancing your timing can trip a code and engine light.
454 injectors put out way too much fuel. i tried a 454 tbi system on a 327 and all i got was a trashed engine, but you might try a bigger throttle body with say 60# injectors and go frome there but at this point you WILL NEED a programmer ir your computer will be pissed at you. Also look into after market Throttle bodies,if you think your selection on carbs are good on a v8,there are soooo many different throttle bodies ou there and you get to pick your injectors and air flow alowance and on and on and... you get the pic.
07-01-2010 09:51 AM
MouseFink
Quote:
Originally Posted by 77'Omega
Now a 4.3 i do know, i have mine in my s10 runing low 13's but not constantly on stock intake and heads with a jet programmer and kb 350 flat top pistons zero decked block milled stock heads. but if you want a good 4.3 engine it needs to be 96 and newer,the LF6, produced in 1996 with the introduction of Vortec cylinder heads and a balance shaft that helpt get rid of vibrations which can make it more efficient and reduce the risk of blowing it at higher rpms.but this particulare one was discontinued in 98.All Vortec 4.3s use a cast iron block and heads and 4 in bore and 3.48 in stroke, both of which are the same as a 350, which gives them a displacement of 262.39 cubic inches . Connecting rods still measure 5.7 in although the rod journal diameter is 2.25 in
The Vortec heads used on the balance shaft engines are the best to use but they present problems with the use of a TBI manifold. I certainly did not want to use a balance shaft engine. i could not even find a Cloyes roller timing set or a high lift camshaft for a balance shaft V6 engine.

My 1991 4.3L V6 TBI engine has Speed Pro L2256F-30 forged pistons. The un-cut 1991 V6 heads are the same as the ones used on the Syclone and Typhoon. My heads have 69 CC combustion chambers using Ferrea 2.02"/1.600" SS dish head, unshrouded valves. The compression ratio is 9.7:1 which only permits the use of 93 octane Texaco/Mobil with Techron to prevent detonation and keep the injectors clean. I tried 87 octane but the ESC would not permit it. The old low-tech SP power forged pistons have a compression height of 1.563" which is about .020" closer to the heads than OEM and cast rebulder pistons. The heads were perfectly flat corner to corner so it was unecesary to mill more than a 0.005" clean up. The block was perfect as well. The MSD Pro Billet distributor fit perfect. I replaced the MSD red cap with a NAPA black distributor cap so every thing appears to be OEM to the uneducated eye. The OEM distributor would have probably worked just as well.

Thanks to the Comp Cams 09-412-8 short duration roller cam with 0.500" valve lift and only 39 deg. valve overlap, the engine is still computer compliant and performs as planned using Comp Cams ovate valve springs. However, if I want to get a better ET than 15.00 seconds, I may seek some of your advice on choosing and installing a computer chip, especially if I choose to install those pricey Edelbrock headers and a 454 TBI. I don't know how free flowing exhaust system will effect the O2 and EGR. I have two spare OEM intake manifolds I am sending one to the machine shop next week to see if the throttle bores can be opened to 2.00". That will be necessary in order to acept the 454 TBI without using a funky adapter plate. I have been given some advice that if I install a 454 TBI on The Blazer with a 4L60 transmission, it may turn out to be a re-programming nightmare. I have not secured a good 454 TBI yet so I may not follow through with that idea. I may resist the temptation to follow "More's Law" .... "If some is good - MORE is better".
07-01-2010 09:37 AM
cobalt327 A Muncie set up for a torque tube from the factory would be a find. Thanks for the heads up.
07-01-2010 09:36 AM
77'Omega
yes i beleive so

in the US the trannys got sold in bulk and in canada they used up the old stock on the T/As but not the camaros. the camaros started coming with 5 spds
07-01-2010 09:15 AM
cobalt327
Quote:
Originally Posted by 77'Omega
uhh 78' and up to 83 in canada i think 83 anyways
So in the US you could get a F-car w/a Muncie M-20, etc. until '78?

And in Canada you could get a 3rd. gen F-body ('82-'83) with the Muncie M-20, etc.?
07-01-2010 09:12 AM
77'Omega
Quote:
Originally Posted by cobalt327
Muncie M20, 21 and 22 were used in 1980 T/A's?

What was the last year for a Muncie M-anything 4-speed in an F-body? I seem to remember seeing it as '74...
uhh 78' and up to 83 in canada i think 83 anyways
07-01-2010 07:49 AM
Ray Bell As someone said, "it is hotrodding"...

So what about shortening the input shaft (or making a sandwich adaptor) and using an A833?
07-01-2010 07:20 AM
cobalt327
Quote:
Originally Posted by AndersonRacing44
TA's were still being equiped with M20,21,22's
Muncie M20, 21 and 22 were used in 1980 T/A's?

What was the last year for a Muncie M-anything 4-speed in an F-body? I seem to remember seeing it as '74...
07-01-2010 02:22 AM
AndersonRacing44 IMO you will get more bang for your buck with the pontiac. the chevy 400 being a small block design was notorious for over heating and deck warpage because of the thin walled water jackets.bourg warner didnt make a m22 they made turbo T10's found commonly in later year Trans Ams but TA's were still being equiped with M20,21,22's
07-01-2010 02:04 AM
cobalt327
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapsz28
My 1980 Z28 has in it a M21 matching # muncie which I had rebulilt this summer and exept for seals the tranny was inn perfect shape with 116,000kms on it or 100,000miles,people dont beleive me untill I show them them the build sheet and they take a peak under the car, beautifull tranny had her sealed with castrol syntec 70w90 gear oil which will outlast the tranny but still every 2 sesons regardless of mielage I change the fluid, preventative maintenance goes along way.
Are you saying you think your 1980 Camaro came with- as in originally equipped with- a Muncie M21?

In "GM speak" RPO code M21 or whatever do not refer to the tranny maker, just a 4-speed close ratio.
07-01-2010 12:52 AM
sapsz28
M21

My 1980 Z28 has in it a M21 matching # muncie which I had rebulilt this summer and exept for seals the tranny was inn perfect shape with 116,000kms on it or 100,000miles,people dont beleive me untill I show them them the build sheet and they take a peak under the car, beautifull tranny had her sealed with castrol syntec 70w90 gear oil which will outlast the tranny but still every 2 sesons regardless of mielage I change the fluid, preventative maintenance goes along way.
06-27-2010 06:40 PM
77'Omega
Quote:
Originally Posted by MouseFink
I would use well prepared Chevrolet engine and a TH 700-R4 (4L60) automatic transmission with with all the up-grade goodies. I cannot think of a thing a 3-speed manual transmission would be good for except for a fish structure. I have built, raced and showed various Pontiacs since 1967. I can build a Pontiac engine blindfolded, but it is time for a change. Parts for those engines and vehicles have just about dried up. I pity the person who wants to restore one today.

Last year one individual bought my two '63 Pontiac Catlinas with 455 engines, two spare 455 engines, one 389 engine, six pairs of heads, and every other spare part that I had that would fit them. I even tossed in two engine stands in the deal. The only problem I had with that deal was what to do with all the money I received.

I have a good start on a two-owner 1991 Chevrolet S10 Blazer 4x4, 4L60 transmission, and a professionally prepared 4.3L V6 engine. I have squeezed about 50 additional HP out of a 180 HP engine and it is still computer compliant. My objective is 15 sec. flat in the 1/4 mile, which is what the 1963 Pontiac 421 HO Motor Trend test car did.

Future plans include a 454 TBI on my stock intake manifold with bored-out throttle bores. And Edelbrock 68562 headers and Y-pipe, if that equipment will remain computer compliant. I need to go ahead and buy the Edelbrock exhaust system soon before it goes the way of the Do-Do bird and Pontiac parts.
Now a 4.3 i do know, i have mine in my s10 runing low 13's but not constantly on stock intake and heads with a jet programmer and kb 350 flat top pistons zero decked block milled stock heads. but if you want a good 4.3 engine it needs to be 96 and newer,the LF6, produced in 1996 with the introduction of Vortec cylinder heads and a balance shaft that helpt get rid of vibrations which can make it more efficient and reduce the risk of blowing it at higher rpms.but this particulare one was discontinued in 98.All Vortec 4.3s use a cast iron block and heads and 4 in bore and 3.48 in stroke, both of which are the same as a 350, which gives them a displacement of 262.39 cubic inches . Connecting rods still measure 5.7 in although the rod journal diameter is 2.25 in
06-27-2010 06:15 PM
77'Omega
Well!

i have access to almost any thing but a 442 and (cheap) pontiac parts but price isnt a big deal considering this build is going to take about 15 more months and as far as the trannys i dont want a automatic, for some reason they just dont last around here,i have a 700R4 but it needs new power bands or cluches. But i also found a borg-warner 5 spd out of an lt-1 camaro but ive never heard any thing on those. back on engines i do know were a 455 rocket is in south east texas but i dont know how much he would want for it or if he still has the heads. but i have the pontiac block in the shop now with a .010 turned crank,a full set of rods that i might not use and the pistons are not to appealing. they pop up about an 1/8 of an inch but they have about an 1/8 inch space around the pop up part and valve reliefs, i guess there just some kind of stock pistons ohh just remeberd the 400 is out of a 78 pontiac t/a and it has XX stamped on the passenger side back of the block and X's stamped in various other places.
06-24-2010 08:09 PM
cobalt327
Quote:
Originally Posted by 77'Omega
ok im going with the pontiac 400
I think you made a good choice- at least not another Chevy engined non Chevy. I applaud you. I'm sure the Olds purists might have something different to say, but the Omega could be had w/a variety of engines from the factory. I just don't think the Pontiac was one of them, though. Oh well- this IS hotrodding, isn't it?? lol

Quote:
as for the trans some one is picking it up on there way through okc but it was 75 bucks and if it explodes after puting it in ill just get a different tranny plus i have a buick trans in the shop that looks just like the pontiac trans siting next to it. the buick tranny being a good one and the pontiac having huge holes and cracks all over.
thanks for all the input, i will up date on the 4 spd
Are the holes in the tranny case? It may be good for parts, at least.

The trannys are basically the same if from a B, O or P (Buick, Olds or Pontiac). The Chev has a different bolt pattern (the bell housing comes to a "peak") but is otherwise similar. The Chev 305 and lesser engines generally had one less clutch in each clutch pack than 350 or 400 SBC trannys, the BOP trannys will also vary some as to clutch count. The BOP trannys seem to have a better chance of having the better clutch counts, in my experience.

The F-body uses the short tailshaft. Swapping out the tailshafts requires an almost complete disassembly. If you swap trannys, you'll want to keep the speedo gears that match your speedometer if you keep the rear gears that are in it now. The F-body also uses a shift arm made to work w/the floor shifter that may or may not be w/the trannys you have.

Finally, there are relatively inexpensive adapter plates that allow you to bolt up a Chevy tranny to a BOP engine. I've used them several times and they work fine. I see they're up to >$60, last one I bought was like $35 IIRC .
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