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Topic Review (Newest First)
06-29-2010 09:05 AM
timothale
factory paint jobs

I worked at Ford. 65 to 80, in those years the Spec allowed orange peel from about 30 " down. The Metal Finish specs were Zoned , more defects allowed where you didn't have a good view. Ford had it's own paint factory but couldn't meet the demand so outside suppliers were supposed to verify their material Quality. All those peeling silver cars and trucks in the 70's were done with supplier paint that didn't hold up. California had strict smoke stack specs. Ford used Fans at the end of the E coat oven to spread the fumes around inside the factory and let it leak out the broken windows . When the Mustang factory shut down the Ford Paint Superintendent went to Japan for a year to consult at their factories on how to get a better paint job. They were willing to spend the time and money to do a better job.
06-29-2010 07:50 AM
MARTINSR
Quote:
Originally Posted by BarryK
The whole issue with a factory paint job is lack of material used, it is so thin, the first time someone takes a buffer to it, from then on you are on borrowed time as the the clear is just not thick enough to last.
This was the problem with the GM peelers in the eighties. There was so little paint and clear that the UV was getting thru and breaking down the primer under it. I remember peeling the paint off with a razor and the primer was like powder!

I do have to say though as of late, the factory paint on all cars is holding up pretty damn good. They learned a hell of a lesson back in the eighties! Can you imagine what that cost them?

Brian
06-29-2010 07:39 AM
MARTINSR
Quote:
Originally Posted by 302 Z28
It is a matter of production the OEM's need to roll out as many cars as possible in one day. They cannot afford to let a freshly painted vehicle sit in a paint booth for an entire day.

Vince
Not only that, but think about this. That company who makes millions of cars, they paint as many cars in a day as the shop where I work in a year. We have ALL had a problem that would cause catastrophic failure at one time or another. In our case we can figure it out and correct it in a day, a week, a month, what ever it takes and we have only delivered a handful of ticking time bombs out. By the time the manufacturer figures out his mistake he has put out thousands or hundreds of thousands of these "time bombs" waiting to fail!

Pretty scary thing. This is why when we had a problem with our paint a year or so ago, a delaming problem and there was no answer, I put a lot of pressure on the boss who was being a little too laid back for my taste to CHANGE PAINT COMPANIES RIGHT NOW! We can't afford to put out twenty or thirty cars that are going to fail. The manufacturer has done that the first thirty minutes of the shift!

NUMMI the plant near me was rolling a new car off the line every 54 seconds!

Brian
06-29-2010 07:29 AM
BarryK It is all a matter of cost, nothing to do with can't or can getting right.

Lost poll I saw years back is for something like 90% of their customers complained about their new GM paint job.

They could make it perfect, if YOU want to pay the price.

Kinda like buying a $4,000 paint job or a $20,000 one, there will be a big difference.
06-29-2010 07:17 AM
302 Z28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rosewood
Don't you think it's strange that a company that paints millons of cars can't get it right and a body shop that paints hundreds can?
It is a matter of production the OEM's need to roll out as many cars as possible in one day. They cannot afford to let a freshly painted vehicle sit in a paint booth for an entire day.

Vince
06-29-2010 07:07 AM
Rosewood Don't you think it's strange that a company that paints millons of cars can't get it right and a body shop that paints hundreds can?
06-29-2010 05:59 AM
shine i love how detailers will take sandpaper to a new one the buff it. you can set on the porch and hear the paint fail.......
06-29-2010 05:45 AM
BarryK The whole issue with a factory paint job is lack of material used, it is so thin, the first time someone takes a buffer to it, from then on you are on borrowed time as the the clear is just not thick enough to last.

Easy fix but to costly, I remember a few years back doing some work at the Saturn plant and they had a bonus program, come up with a savings of $2 dollars a car and you could get up to either $25,000 or 50,000 dollars, don't really remember but now think about adding another $50 of clear to a car, no way!
06-29-2010 05:15 AM
Irelands child
Quote:
Originally Posted by Runnin'OnEmpty

The Ranger has a show quality black finish from the factory, however
it's very thin. If a fly lands on the hood, it'll scratch the finish.

I sure wish my '06 BLACK F350 had a better paint job (tho it IS better then most GM pick ups) and it isn't too thin. If my '31 had that much orange peel I would repaint it immediately. My wife's Escape - it has nice a paint job.

Dave W
06-29-2010 03:29 AM
BarryK Do keep in mind, the question was "quality of paint used" don't confuse with piss poor application.

Back about 14-18 years ago Ford got some concession to ship the Taurus to Japan to sell. At the plant here in Atlanta the hired a bunch people and paid millions for a special lighted area, so any car going to Japan could be wet sanded and buffed like a show job.

Lexis, the robots spray the clear and then it is wet sanded and sent through again.
06-28-2010 08:56 PM
Runnin'OnEmpty I have a late model Ford Ranger that's painted black. As we all know,
only the best bodies are painted black and the paint robots are 'tuned'
perfectly to spray the black, since that color shows every defect.

The Ranger has a show quality black finish from the factory, however
it's very thin. If a fly lands on the hood, it'll scratch the finish.

Point is, I think the factory scrimps on the amount of paint used....
06-28-2010 08:01 PM
302 Z28
Quote:
Originally Posted by dinger
Some of the G.M. trucks I see make me shudder, the orange peel is horrible.
Take a look at at a new Vette, it's a shame to pay that much for a car then have to wet sand and buff it. When we toured the Vette factory in Bowling Green after it was over we were asked what we thought.....they should not have asked. I pointed out the orange peel in the clear and several other people chimed in about it. The rep said they were aware of it and were taking steps to improve it.....that was five years ago.

Vince
06-28-2010 07:41 PM
dinger Well then, here's my question related somewhat to the subject. G.M. paint jobs generally are the worse I see, mucho orange peel, while a Lexus, some BMW's, have little or none, Are these cars buffed or is it just a better process? Some of the G.M. trucks I see make me shudder, the orange peel is horrible.
06-28-2010 07:08 PM
BarryK Quality wise, there is not really any difference, the difference is in the application and set up of the product.

Ecoat-epoxy, waterborne base at most plants now and then the clear, the clear will be same as a jobber sells of that brand but they do a few things different.

First, robots don't get into mixing paint, so they will use a "blocked ISO" in the clear, in other words the clear will only harden once it reaches a certain temp in baking, most are set for 400-450 at 60 minutes to cure out and can be as high as 500.

The other thing they do is vary mixtures of UV additive, where a normal clear may have 2, they will use a mixture of three or four, so the clear can be applied thinner and not need the "2 mil" net rule (in theory).

All t*t for tat.
06-28-2010 02:24 PM
OneMoreTime When properly done about ten years is about it for most normal rigs..some of the ones who live in a garage when not on the road will last longer..and it also has a lot to do with environment the car lives in as well..

Sam
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