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Re-Torque small block heads or not?

Re-Torque Poll

6K views 46 replies 20 participants last post by  Duntov 
#1 ·
Should we Re-torque small block heads? Yes or NO
 
#28 ·
automotive breath said:
I agree it's the details that make the difference. Abnormal combustion will kill
a head gasket quicker than anything; light ping cycle after cycle, pre-ignition,
high combustion temperatures and pressure spikes. I spent all the time
it takes to eliminate these completely. We race every weekend and run our
engines two to three years before freshening up, never find loose bolts
or blown gaskets.

Perfect motor go faster /////go longer :thumbup:
 
#29 ·
cusz28 said:
I can wholeheartedly agree with the head bolts staying torqued. I just like making sure they stay there after a few miles. It's just like aluminum rims. they say to retorque after 100 miles or so, but it's really to cover their butts if it does come off. I've never seen any fall off.
My brother has had one of his back tires pass him going down the street, turn left into a neighborhood hit the edging around one of the houses garden and go in through a front window landing about a foot away from someone sitting there watching TV...

If it's my pocket the money comes out of, i'll retorque only to check and varify. if not, screw it.
While I don't go out of my way to retorque after a few heat cycles, and don't really believe that it does any good, but I usually try to work things so I'm putting on the top end of the engine (heads/intake) at the end of the day so when I come back the next day I check the torque on all the bolts before slapping on the valve covers, carb/FI, emissions stuff... the head bolts don't usually move, but the intake bolts almost always do, and whether it does any good or not, it makes me feel better that at the very least I know that I didn't miss torquing any of them...
 
#30 ·
Just a quick note;

TTY (Torque to yield) is not the same as using a Torque angle instrument to determine fastener torque.

In general to use the TTY method you would use a dial indicator or micrometer to determine the change in fastener length which would indicate your torque.

Torque angle works in a similar way but uses a calculated rotation angle using a "signature analysis" of the bolt in question multiplied by the pitch of the fastener to determine the torque.

The most common question I hear is how do you use the TTY method on a stud, its quite simple you just measure how much the stud protrusion increases as the fastener is torqued.

BTW I have always used pipe dope on head bolts that protrude into coolant passages, I use 3M Loctite 592 pipe sealant because of its temp resistance.
 
#32 ·
Silverback said:
My brother has had one of his back tires pass him going down the street, turn left into a neighborhood hit the edging around one of the houses garden and go in through a front window landing about a foot away from someone sitting there watching TV...
SEE! The one time you don't do it, it happens. GOD I hate carma. Good point though, thanks for bringing it up. The chance, no matter how infantecimal, for a head (or rim in this case) to loose it's fastener's retention is there, but most people either do not fall into the category to neccesitate retorquing, or it doesn't matter due to application, fastener, head material, etc. Some people do fall into the category, and for them, it sucks to see them cut corners and have something catastrophic happen. I've always stuck to: TTY, torque once. NON-TTY, torque and check.
 
#33 ·
Duntov said:
Exactly Silverback!

I'm sure a whole lot of people were waiting to hear that said, because it's been true for fifty years.
That's why we use the PTFE pipe dope from a professional plumbing supply outfit. Learned it from a hydraulics engineer in the Eighties. It acts like a medium grease on first torque. to 65 ftlbs. but will hold 3500 psi of hot hydraulic fluid, on a half inch pipe thread.backhoes ect.
What PTFE dope do you usually use? I used to swear by the stuff but the last few years I've had notoriously bad luck with any of the ones that I can get easily over the counter... I would love to find something that I can trust again.

Secondly, do you guys use something different on cars with O2 sensors? As far as I can tell, no PTFE pipe dope is "sensor safe."

It seems like i try something different on my own stuff every time, and if it's someone else's it's usually whatever they want or sensor safe RTV (which I hate if you have to mess with it later)
 
#35 ·
runny ptfe? me to/ We should market "Hotrodder brand" thread sealant

Silverback said:
What PTFE dope do you usually use? I used to swear by the stuff but the last few years I've had notoriously bad luck with any of the ones that I can get easily over the counter... I would love to find something that I can trust again.

Secondly, do you guys use something different on cars with O2 sensors? As far as I can tell, no PTFE pipe dope is "sensor safe."

It seems like i try something different on my own stuff every time, and if it's someone else's it's usually whatever they want or sensor safe RTV (which I hate if you have to mess with it later)
I've been having a heck of a time getting the good stuff. Seems like all of it is runny and inconsistent for a couple of years. We have about four cans in the engine room and some on the paint shelf. we leave the lids loose half off on the ones we don't like and after a while you get a really good one for several engines and then you have to go to another "seasoned can".. I hate to admit that to the world but it seems the truth goes a long way here abouts. I'll check the brand name on the one good can we have in the clean room. Post tomorrow night. Duntov
 
#38 ·
cobalt327 said:
I don't like the fact that after you vote you can't see who else voted and what they voted for. :mad:
you are absolutly right, an open poll should be open to those that voted

YES: Always retorque regardless of gasket tech info
a1supersport, cobalt327, cusz28, DOCTOR DC, Duntov, ericnova72, pepi, WDCreech
8 36.36%


No: Never Rettorque a head gasket
4speed57, AndersonRacing44, curtis73, GMC boogie, Jake_Dragon, MouseFink, OLNOLAN, V8 Super Beetle
8 36.36%


MAYBE: Depends on gasket manufacturers' instructions
Adam65, airboat, bigdog7373, chevyv8_power, ERacerX, Plaintoast
6 27.27%
 
#41 ·
We're being watched Guys...

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 8 (1 members and 7 guests)

Some of you watcher guys sign up and tell us how to retorque a v8..........
Plus there's a thread just over the way where a guy is looking for a lost nut. :welcome: :welcome: :welcome: :welcome:
 
#42 ·
Duntov said:
Not gonna tell us?
Okay. Tell you what...multiple choice: :D

1. "Just put spit...YEAH!!!"
2. Bubble Gum
3. Two-part epoxy (well, at least the bolts won't come loose...EVER)
4. Red or Blue RTV (if they had White...you could use all three. All-American engine)
5. Ear wax (and when you run out of ear wax...use boogers)
6. Grease (hey, it's a water repellent...)
7. Sugar (the heat will caramelize it...right?)
8. Talcum powder (so you don't chafe your bolts)
 
#43 ·
a1supersport said:
Okay. Tell you what...multiple choice: :D

1. "Just put spit...YEAH!!!"
2. Bubble Gum
3. Two-part epoxy (well, at least the bolts won't come loose...EVER)
4. Red or Blue RTV (if they had White...you could use all three. All-American engine)
5. Ear wax (and when you run out of ear wax...use boogers)
6. Grease (hey, it's a water repellent...)
7. Sugar (the heat will caramelize it...right?)
8. Talcum powder (so you don't chafe your bolts)

Yours is a well kept secret; but we're gonna keep an eye on you. :cool:

I was, but should not have been, surprised at how many people were using some form, or brand of PTFE paste or dope. And they're not all re-torquers.

Anyone know that the newer dart blocks aren't bored into the jacket? Still cost too much while 0010s are around though. At least for the HP we mostly build to.
 
#45 ·
Deeavi said:
Never have re-torqued with the modern gaskets. I am considering doing it on my current build because motor will be under boost after getting some miles on it. Also Tony Mamo from AFR says that he always does it. That is enough to convince me to do it this time.
I figure it doesn't cost me anything at any time I do it; The extra time of course, but the peace of mind is well worth it to me. Besides we aren't adding torque are we? Aren't we just checking to be sure it is still holding the torque we were intending according to the specs? Book says 65 or 70 so I think they want it to be there next month also....... Actually never had a failure from not re-torquing but in 40 years you couldn't believe how many customer engines came in loose and leaking...
 
#46 ·
crazy torque sequence

I do A LOT of engine work and some of the ones i repair have two smaller torque steps and then back off completeley and then retorque to a third and then + 90 degrees. (TTY) Insane. Many auto manufacturers have there own ideas and even for the sake of argument follow the manufacturers standard unless using a non oem design and it specifies differently.Reality is stranger than fiction.
 
#47 ·
TTY me2

latech said:
I do A LOT of engine work and some of the ones i repair have two smaller torque steps and then back off completeley and then retorque to a third and then + 90 degrees. (TTY) Insane. Many auto manufacturers have there own ideas and even for the sake of argument follow the manufacturers standard unless using a non oem design and it specifies differently.Reality is stranger than fiction.
I like that process but it only works on what it is designed for. I had sbc on my mind when I started the poll and I might should have kept the question to that but it is good that these other applications come up. SBC has short bolts on lower row what tty wouldn't work for; at least I don't imagine they would have that spring in a short length.
But man, if there was TTY for SBC and many older designs it would settle this question once and for all, in my book. TTY felt weird the first time. My son re-states over and over when the subject comes up; that head bolts are simply springs, and TTY with the advanced metallurgy, allows for a super spring that follows down.. I don't think I ever understood re-torque completely until that revelation soaked in. I never trust the small block or anything old to still have the same torque on it next week unless I check, Peace o mind. Duntov Ps Hey from South Carolina 99 degrees today :welcome:
 
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