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Topic Review (Newest First)
08-04-2010 09:09 PM
redsdad I remember a couple 65-70 big Chevies coming in with shims. However, the proper way to adjust was with the eccentric and strut rod. I would pull all the shims out and set it right.

You can see the eccentrics and the strut rods in some of the shots on this page.

http://www.joescustoms.com/Impala5.htm
08-04-2010 04:47 PM
39 chev Yes the 65 to 70 full size chevy's had an eccentric on the lower control arm for camber adjustment,and an adjustable strut rod to set caster.I aligned many of them back in the day.
08-04-2010 07:08 AM
bygddy
Quote:
Originally Posted by MARTINSR
What 1970 are we talking about? I don't know of ANY factory GM car with an eccentric bolt/washer. Trucks have one but I honestly don't remember any vintage GM cars with one.

Brian
70 Pontiac Strato Chief (impala) , just did it last week....i had never heard of it either...
08-03-2010 11:41 PM
ericnova72
Quote:
Originally Posted by MARTINSR
What 1970 are we talking about? I don't know of ANY factory GM car with an eccentric bolt/washer. Trucks have one but I honestly don't remember any vintage GM cars with one.

Brian
Vega(H-body) is all I can think of besides the trucks. Nothing but the trucks in 1970 however, Vega didn't exist until '71.
08-03-2010 10:20 PM
MARTINSR What 1970 are we talking about? I don't know of ANY factory GM car with an eccentric bolt/washer. Trucks have one but I honestly don't remember any vintage GM cars with one.

Brian
08-03-2010 08:33 PM
Bryan59EC no cams on a 58-64 car at all.
08-03-2010 06:53 PM
bygddy Um?? This may sound dumber then it should but are these not the same basic front end set up as my 70? i have the car lowered three ish inches up front and 2 in teh rear, after doing that the camber was so bannanas in 150km i had the inside edges at the wear bars on brand new tires...long story short, checked the control arms to see how many shims i could remove to try and get some positive camber back and hmmm, i had none, then everyone and their dog tells me about ofset control arms and ball joints and yada yada yada, turns out i just had no idea what i was talking about and my buddy tells me about the eccentric bolt at the lower control arm, put it on rack, and ten minutes later, it was straight.....it was really cool too....now this may not be relevant atall, if not good luck and sorry for wasting your time.....
07-27-2010 12:38 AM
AndersonRacing44
Quote:
Originally Posted by redsdad
I have to disagree. If you remove more shims from the front than the rear, that would move the upper ball joint rearward moving the caster in the positive direction.
correct =)
07-25-2010 09:26 AM
39 chev
negative camber question

Yes,a 10 ton ram pushing straight across is plenty strong to spread the crossmember to the proper specs. We used to"jack" a lot of those GM crossmembers for camber back in the day,but we didnt usually have the convenience of having the engine removed.
07-23-2010 07:05 PM
MARTINSR
Quote:
Originally Posted by 39 chev
That is real common on those frames.I corrected a 60 sedan delivery a few years ago. now is the time to do it,with the engine out.Any reputable frame shop should have the specs(distance between shim mounting surfaces).I dont have them here,but I can get them for you if needed. I simply put a 10 ton porto-power ram between the shim surfaces and spread to specs(plus a little extra for good measure.). Its a lot easier to do it now,rather than after the running gear is installed. It can be done either way, but it is a lot more work to pull it on the frame machine after it is put together.
I hadn't thought of that, if the frame needs to be spread without the engine is the time to do it. I am thinking "wheel alignment", with that you need all the weight in. But if the frame is indeed "sagging" then now is the time to do it, good call.

But is a 10 ton porto-power really enough? Seems that frame would be stronger than that.

Brian
07-23-2010 06:51 PM
39 chev
negative camber question

That is real common on those frames.I corrected a 60 sedan delivery a few years ago. now is the time to do it,with the engine out.Any reputable frame shop should have the specs(distance between shim mounting surfaces).I dont have them here,but I can get them for you if needed. I simply put a 10 ton porto-power ram between the shim surfaces and spread to specs(plus a little extra for good measure.). Its a lot easier to do it now,rather than after the running gear is installed. It can be done either way, but it is a lot more work to pull it on the frame machine after it is put together.
07-23-2010 09:25 AM
Tony@AirRideTech
Quote:
Originally Posted by MARTINSR
Alignment of collision damaged cars is one of my "things". I have to say there is no set amount of anything on the amount of shims, the thickness of shims and the placement of shims on a 45 year old car, toss everything out the window.

You put the gauges on the car, and align it. What you end up with could be five 1/16" shims on one side and two on the other in the back and a 1/32" on the front of one side and none on the other. These shims from the factory were making up for less than perfect placement of control arm mounting points. Today, after 45 years of hitting pot holes and frame sag, it is anyones guess what you will come up with, and it doesn't matter one bit, as long as the friggin wheels are where they need to be! A TINY bend in a control arm, one that you would NEVER SEE looking at it could send you off a mile. That is what the shims are for.

There is no way you can set anything without having ALL the weight in the car, the motor, the body, all the way to the front bumper.

If you are looking at your negative camber now you have no springs in it and the frame is sitting below ride height so OF COURSE you will have negative camber. Look at the upper control arms and how they are leaning? At proper ride height they are near level. The further from level they are the "shorter" they are. Meaning that the ball joint comes in towards the frame as the control arm arcs up or down. This isn't as pronounced on this car as a newer one as this car doesn't have a lot of the geomotry engineered into it as a later model car does, but you still get some negative camber on this car as the outside wheel goes up around a corner when the car leans. On a newer car this is really clear, as the car goes around a corner and the body leans, the outside tire going up into the body, right? Well, when this happens the top of the wheel goes in creating MORE negative camber giving the tire more "bite". Stand with your legs straight down, then lean your body to one side, if you put your foot out further away from the other one you can lean more, right? The negative camber being increased does this. So it is designed into your suspension to do this, the lower you have it the more negative camber. By the way, this is what the "long spindle" modification does for you. On a first gen Camaro this is one of the first improvements you make if you want to make it handle better. You put a longer spindle in it, this raises the upper control arm which in turn gives you a "head start" on the negative camber needed in the corner. Once the car leans that upper ball joint moves in quick brings the top of the tire in giving it more bite on the corner.


Forget about it until you get it up at right height. There is NOTHING you can do with your alignment with the car down like that. EVERY adjustable point, camber, caster, and toe will ALL be changed when the car is raised up.

As Bryan said, they also make offset upper control arm shafts for a lot of cars (don't know about yours) to correct alignment issues that shims alone can't.

Brian

great post Brian....... beat me to it~!
07-04-2010 09:44 AM
MARTINSR Alignment of collision damaged cars is one of my "things". I have to say there is no set amount of anything on the amount of shims, the thickness of shims and the placement of shims on a 45 year old car, toss everything out the window.

You put the gauges on the car, and align it. What you end up with could be five 1/16" shims on one side and two on the other in the back and a 1/32" on the front of one side and none on the other. These shims from the factory were making up for less than perfect placement of control arm mounting points. Today, after 45 years of hitting pot holes and frame sag, it is anyones guess what you will come up with, and it doesn't matter one bit, as long as the friggin wheels are where they need to be! A TINY bend in a control arm, one that you would NEVER SEE looking at it could send you off a mile. That is what the shims are for.

There is no way you can set anything without having ALL the weight in the car, the motor, the body, all the way to the front bumper.

If you are looking at your negative camber now you have no springs in it and the frame is sitting below ride height so OF COURSE you will have negative camber. Look at the upper control arms and how they are leaning? At proper ride height they are near level. The further from level they are the "shorter" they are. Meaning that the ball joint comes in towards the frame as the control arm arcs up or down. This isn't as pronounced on this car as a newer one as this car doesn't have a lot of the geomotry engineered into it as a later model car does, but you still get some negative camber on this car as the outside wheel goes up around a corner when the car leans. On a newer car this is really clear, as the car goes around a corner and the body leans, the outside tire going up into the body, right? Well, when this happens the top of the wheel goes in creating MORE negative camber giving the tire more "bite". Stand with your legs straight down, then lean your body to one side, if you put your foot out further away from the other one you can lean more, right? The negative camber being increased does this. So it is designed into your suspension to do this, the lower you have it the more negative camber. By the way, this is what the "long spindle" modification does for you. On a first gen Camaro this is one of the first improvements you make if you want to make it handle better. You put a longer spindle in it, this raises the upper control arm which in turn gives you a "head start" on the negative camber needed in the corner. Once the car leans that upper ball joint moves in quick brings the top of the tire in giving it more bite on the corner.


Forget about it until you get it up at right height. There is NOTHING you can do with your alignment with the car down like that. EVERY adjustable point, camber, caster, and toe will ALL be changed when the car is raised up.

As Bryan said, they also make offset upper control arm shafts for a lot of cars (don't know about yours) to correct alignment issues that shims alone can't.

Brian
07-04-2010 08:57 AM
Irelands child
Quote:
Originally Posted by impalaman63
Why would I have 4 shims on 1 side (front bolt) and only 2 shims on the other side (FT. bolt)? Should all shims be the same on each side?
Not necessarily. Manufacturing tolerances on every piece, accidents, metal twists from roads will affect the base frame assembly as well as each part.

Dave W
07-04-2010 07:36 AM
Bryan59EC
Quote:
Originally Posted by redsdad
I have to disagree. If you remove more shims from the front than the rear, that would move the upper ball joint rearward moving the caster in the positive direction.
You're right----I hadda brain fart
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