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Topic Review (Newest First)
01-02-2011 10:59 AM
waterdude
Quote:
Originally Posted by TucsonJay
shoot a coat of midcoat clear, which always sticks, since it is also basecoat. After and hour or so you can shoot the final clear and get excellent adhesion.
so clear base coat is not just clear without UV? so you shoot the clear after the clear base its totally cured or does it have a coat window?..


Edit: the sherwin W clear base coat(Ultra 7000) I am using needs a atalyzer..if I don't it will never dry
01-02-2011 06:15 AM
deadbodyman Ahh, R-M Dimont now theres some good stuff I havent seen for a while...
01-01-2011 05:45 PM
TucsonJay
Quote:
Originally Posted by Runnin'OnEmpty
Another reason most basecoats don't require hardener is that they're
actually porous, and soak up the first coat of clearcoat that's applied.
This gives a very strong bond between the base and clear.
You probably should know that when there is a recoat window time on putting the clear on, and you can't do it within the window, you can do this:

If you don't topcoat within the time frame.... shoot a coat of midcoat clear, which always sticks, since it is also basecoat. After and hour or so you can shoot the final clear and get excellent adhesion.

At least this is true for HOK, R-M, and Xotic Colours.
01-01-2011 03:43 PM
Quikvmax
Quote:
Originally Posted by deadbodyman
my gun really lays it on so my personal preferance is two coats at a time and no more than three But different guns and styles of painting dictate how far you can go.
usually when I go to all this trouble,time is not an issue so I'm in no hurry to clear,I might wait as long as a week to clear but I always do the majoity of sanding the color the next day,it seems easier and runs can gas out .then befor I clear I'll sand everything down front to back, if theres any shrinkage this is when I'll catch it.
I've always wet sanded but never used a lot of water,too much water will carry all the paint dust and pool somewhere then when the water evaporates leaving the residue behind and its just messy so I do about a sq. ft. at a time, drying it as i GO and never let the water run from where I'm working,you dont need a water hose and 100 gal of water just a spray pump bottle will do ,all your trying to do is lubricate the paper a little.
I recenty broke down and tried the velcro soft pad on my hutchin DA with the 600 dry paper and I really liked it it worked much better than I thought it would but I still used the 600 by hand first to find the dirt, I'd hate for that thing to catch a piece of trash and roll it all over a hood or something.....Still, I dont think I'll be using it much the potential to screw something up seams a lot higher ,and hand sanding isnt THAT hard or time consuming..
It's the buffing I hate....
That's what we ALL hate.lol
01-01-2011 03:41 PM
Runnin'OnEmpty
Quote:
Originally Posted by waterdude
I have a question...How come the base coat doesn't have a hardener?.. wouldn't that be like shooting clear coat over lacquer or enamel?..
Another reason most basecoats don't require hardener is that they're
actually porous, and soak up the first coat of clearcoat that's applied.
This gives a very strong bond between the base and clear.
01-01-2011 10:16 AM
deadbodyman my gun really lays it on so my personal preferance is two coats at a time and no more than three But different guns and styles of painting dictate how far you can go.
usually when I go to all this trouble,time is not an issue so I'm in no hurry to clear,I might wait as long as a week to clear but I always do the majoity of sanding the color the next day,it seems easier and runs can gas out .then befor I clear I'll sand everything down front to back, if theres any shrinkage this is when I'll catch it.
I've always wet sanded but never used a lot of water,too much water will carry all the paint dust and pool somewhere then when the water evaporates leaving the residue behind and its just messy so I do about a sq. ft. at a time, drying it as i GO and never let the water run from where I'm working,you dont need a water hose and 100 gal of water just a spray pump bottle will do ,all your trying to do is lubricate the paper a little.
I recenty broke down and tried the velcro soft pad on my hutchin DA with the 600 dry paper and I really liked it it worked much better than I thought it would but I still used the 600 by hand first to find the dirt, I'd hate for that thing to catch a piece of trash and roll it all over a hood or something.....Still, I dont think I'll be using it much the potential to screw something up seams a lot higher ,and hand sanding isnt THAT hard or time consuming..
It's the buffing I hate....
01-01-2011 09:30 AM
DanielC "I like sanding in between mostly to remove dirt and get a very level surface to clear th difference is noticeable..."

DBM, Good points. When I paint, I usually do not have access to a paint booth, and even when I did, it was not perfectly clean.
01-01-2011 07:44 AM
deadbodyman Your absolutely right Dan, Thats called your recoat window,All paints have them they dont necessarily have to be of the same brand.....with a SS they dry slower so we like to let the color sit and cure a little before clearing because if you get too much material all at once you can have shrinkage problems and a few other troubles...I like sanding in between mostly to remove dirt and get a very level surface to clear th difference is noticeable...but you can do it all without sanding but the reason your clearing the SS is for an even better look with more depth and most guys dont have a nice booth to paint in so the dirt is a bigger problem....sanding isnt that hard it only takes an hour or two....
12-30-2010 10:40 AM
DanielC Again, I am no expert painter. But I have shot a little paint. the last bc/cc system I shot, the basecoat did have an activator. and so did the clear coat.

One thing I have not seen talked about yet is this. If you use the same brand and type of single stage clear over the single stage color, and you apply the clear within a short time frame, you will not need to scuff the color before applying the clear.

An example, with paints I am familiar with. Dupont Centari. The Data sheet says it can be clear coated up to 48 hours after the final coat without the need to sand the single stage color.

The best piece of advise I can give you is this.

Read the data sheets on every product you intend to use to paint.
12-30-2010 05:47 AM
jcclark
Quote:
Originally Posted by waterdude
I have a question...How come the base coat doesn't have a hardener?.. wouldn't that be like shooting clear coat over lacquer or enamel?..
Kind of!!!!
You can and should add a little activator to base coat,
it does really help.
Some bases, like DuPont's better base (Chromapremier)
does require a activator.
Basecoats do rely on the clear for protection.
That is a strong arguement for useing a single stage "urethane"
in place of basecoat and clearing it the same way.
(I wouldn't use enamel)
That's what I did for my car and will do it again for any of my own.
I like it better and think it's definetly stronger.
But for all collision repairs I do I use base/clear just because of it
being faster and easier to work with.
12-29-2010 08:49 PM
st3gamefarm
Quote:
Originally Posted by kc8oye
I'm still trying to decide on going with a single stage urethane or a base/clear combo on my 72 monte carlo.. can I get your guyz' opinions on which might be better for me?

it's going to be a Solid (non-metallic) white.. I plan to use the GM color code for a 2006 "Arctic White" corvette. (I like the white, and being a factory color, it should be easy to find touch up paint and such for it)

I'm not an experienced painter, in fact, I will probably do all the primer and prep/blocking work (i've got experience with this stuff) and have a shop do the final paint for me.

I'm looking for what would be easier to take care of and touch up if it does get dinged up (And it will, cuz I drive the SNOT out of my car)
Single stage for solid colors.
Looks better, and there is no danger of the clear coat getting "milky".
Also, don't go with a cheap brand. there's a reason it's cheap, and it ain't because they want to sell a good product at a reduced price.
12-28-2010 06:06 PM
waterdude I have a question...How come the base coat doesn't have a hardener?.. wouldn't that be like shooting clear coat over lacquer or enamel?..
12-23-2010 11:15 AM
kc8oye thanks for the tips guys my plan so far is basicly to do all the filler & primer work ,and blocking and get it ready to paint.

I will probably paint all the door jams and inside edges myself, then re-assemble the car and have a shop paint the outside in one shot for me, that way I know the color will be uniform :>
12-23-2010 10:52 AM
cyclopsblown34 You can clear over it but it just adds work to any repairs. if it's gonna be a driver, I wouldn't mess with clearing it. The single stage shines just as well as BC/CC but without the three extra coats of material. Without using a piece of sandpaper to verify it, you'd be hard pressed to tell the difference between a BC/CC and SS paint job. you'd pretty much have to be able to touch the surface and see if it is like a mirror with a gap between the surface and the color, or like two way glass where the reflection begins where you touch it.
12-23-2010 09:27 AM
ant_8u Sounds like I'll be going SS on my car then

Can you clear over SS, or is that not possible, or of no real benefit?
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