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single vs base/clear

5K views 29 replies 14 participants last post by  waterdude 
#1 ·
I'm still trying to decide on going with a single stage urethane or a base/clear combo on my 72 monte carlo.. can I get your guyz' opinions on which might be better for me?

it's going to be a Solid (non-metallic) white.. I plan to use the GM color code for a 2006 "Arctic White" corvette. (I like the white, and being a factory color, it should be easy to find touch up paint and such for it)

I'm not an experienced painter, in fact, I will probably do all the primer and prep/blocking work (i've got experience with this stuff) and have a shop do the final paint for me.

I'm looking for what would be easier to take care of and touch up if it does get dinged up (And it will, cuz I drive the SNOT out of my car)
 
#4 ·
deadbodyman said:
I use SS for all my solid colors

X-2 on that one. Single stage has several advantages for a novice painter. Its easier to fix imperfections, easier to cut & buff (no chance of going through the clear coat) and easier to re-shoot if you screw up. Custom effects can be done easier with BC/CC but solid non metallic colors..... I'll use single stage every time.
 
#5 ·
I believe for easy touch up, a single stage would be better.
If I am not mistaken, in Dupont numbers, you want Centari 817 White. My information says it is for 1982 Chevy truck "Frost White" This white in bright sunlight is almost painful to look at without sunglasses.
 
#6 ·
that's the kind of white I want :>

i'm problaby going to continue using the brand of paint I used for the epoxy.. if I could only remember what it's called.. LOL. it's 4am and I'm tired.. lol

oh yeah.. it's Matrix paint.. i get it locally in michigan.. and it's a michigan company. the paint seems to be good stuff, tho being a novice I can't really make a fair comparison.

and it's pricing is really quite reasonable compared to PPG products which I can also get locally .. never looked for a dupont dealer in the area.


Single stage is what I was thinking.. my buddy keeps trying to talk me into a base/clear.
 
#7 ·
although I havent used Matrix Theres a lot of painters around here that love their clear so I would guess their SS paint is just as good...Centari is an acrilic enamel even if you use a hardner it wont last near as long as a urathane ....it is cheaper but urathane is what you really want...
when sprayed right you cant tell SS from BC/CC unless you actually sand it. as long as its a solid color...metalics are a whole nuther story....
 
#10 ·
I have a friend who got a deal going with the local Matrix rep through the auto body classes he took, so i can get Matrix stuff a lot cheaper then anything else ;)

and absolutely.. Urethane is the only way I want to go for a SS.

this car was painted with a Urethane SS.. if my car looks half this nice I'll be happy :) (this is a car we did at the shop i used to work at) we did all the base work, then had a local paint shop do the final coat, as we didn't have a proper spray booth..


 
#12 ·
Metallics and pearls demand a very good gun technique. If really affects the appearance of a metallic if you spray it slightly "dry" or "wet". If you spray a metallic BC/CC, it is a little more forgiving getting the color and evenness of the shade right, without having to worry as much about orange peel, or runs, or sags. Not that you do not have to worry about it, but not as much. Once the color is right, just shoot the clear on it, to get the gloss.
I have seen a few cars painted with a SS metallic, and sprayed slightly "wet" and look really good right after spraying, and then when looked at again slightly later, a very slight "sag" in the paint, that becomes very obvious because the metallic highlights the sag.
 
#13 ·
i've also understood it that the clear prevents the metallic from being exposed to oxygen and corroding..

also if you try to 'cut and buff' a single stage metallic, you can actually affect the metallic, whereas doing the same to a clear coat won't
 
#14 ·
SS stays wet for a while so when you get the metalics all standing up nice and even and popping they slowly sink back into the wet paint and lay down.if you get a little too much paint on it will run or sag and the metalics will slide ....

BC/CC on the other hand drys very fast so once you get the metalics standing up and even they get locked into place ,same with pearls.

concider clear a SS solid color paint W/O the color,
since thats what it is,you can do anything to SS paint that you can do to clear.
if you get a run in either it can be sanded out easily....SS metalics can not be sanded, any runs are there for life ,you can sand it flat but you'll also disturb the metalics making a very noticable spot

SS paint and BC/CC are sprayed using completly different methods....SS being the easiest,You just lay it down like you want it to look. Clears are sprayed the same way (they are the same)

base coats are a lot tougher if you lay it on to heavy(like a SS) it'll) skin over (looking dry ) but soft underneath causing problems when the clear is put on because it traps the solvents ,leaving them nowhere to go.
I would highly advise someone doing their first paint job to use a SS solid color. you'll have a more harmonious outcome. if you get runs , dont worry about it ,they'll sand right out and you'll gain even more valuable experiance.
(all good) So start at the begining when painting your first car (solid color SS) ,it takes practice to get it down ,just getting your trigger finger to operate right takes time,very few people are true naturals when it comes to painting and the really good ones had someone standing over them showing them how............save the pretty pearls and metalics for later...Using them could be a very expensive first lesson.....once you can spray a SS paint nice and slick you'll already know how to spray clear the same ,so your already half way there to learning how to spray BC/CC. The most important part of painting is being patient...
 
#15 ·
matrix is one of the most brittle paints i have ever used. i was talked into using it by a dist on 2 cars. both chipped easily during build. will never use it again. there are many others to use that are far superior to it.
 
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#17 ·
You can clear over it but it just adds work to any repairs. if it's gonna be a driver, I wouldn't mess with clearing it. The single stage shines just as well as BC/CC but without the three extra coats of material. Without using a piece of sandpaper to verify it, you'd be hard pressed to tell the difference between a BC/CC and SS paint job. you'd pretty much have to be able to touch the surface and see if it is like a mirror with a gap between the surface and the color, or like two way glass where the reflection begins where you touch it.
 
#18 ·
thanks for the tips guys :) my plan so far is basicly to do all the filler & primer work ,and blocking and get it ready to paint.

I will probably paint all the door jams and inside edges myself, then re-assemble the car and have a shop paint the outside in one shot for me, that way I know the color will be uniform :>
 
#20 ·
kc8oye said:
I'm still trying to decide on going with a single stage urethane or a base/clear combo on my 72 monte carlo.. can I get your guyz' opinions on which might be better for me?

it's going to be a Solid (non-metallic) white.. I plan to use the GM color code for a 2006 "Arctic White" corvette. (I like the white, and being a factory color, it should be easy to find touch up paint and such for it)

I'm not an experienced painter, in fact, I will probably do all the primer and prep/blocking work (i've got experience with this stuff) and have a shop do the final paint for me.

I'm looking for what would be easier to take care of and touch up if it does get dinged up (And it will, cuz I drive the SNOT out of my car)
Single stage for solid colors.
Looks better, and there is no danger of the clear coat getting "milky".
Also, don't go with a cheap brand. there's a reason it's cheap, and it ain't because they want to sell a good product at a reduced price.
 
#21 ·
waterdude said:
I have a question...How come the base coat doesn't have a hardener?.. :confused: wouldn't that be like shooting clear coat over lacquer or enamel?.. :confused:
Kind of!!!!
You can and should add a little activator to base coat,
it does really help.
Some bases, like DuPont's better base (Chromapremier)
does require a activator.
Basecoats do rely on the clear for protection.
That is a strong arguement for useing a single stage "urethane"
in place of basecoat and clearing it the same way.
(I wouldn't use enamel)
That's what I did for my car and will do it again for any of my own.
I like it better and think it's definetly stronger.
But for all collision repairs I do I use base/clear just because of it
being faster and easier to work with.
 
#22 ·
Again, I am no expert painter. But I have shot a little paint. the last bc/cc system I shot, the basecoat did have an activator. and so did the clear coat.

One thing I have not seen talked about yet is this. If you use the same brand and type of single stage clear over the single stage color, and you apply the clear within a short time frame, you will not need to scuff the color before applying the clear.

An example, with paints I am familiar with. Dupont Centari. The Data sheet says it can be clear coated up to 48 hours after the final coat without the need to sand the single stage color.

The best piece of advise I can give you is this.

Read the data sheets on every product you intend to use to paint.
 
#23 · (Edited)
Your absolutely right Dan, Thats called your recoat window,All paints have them they dont necessarily have to be of the same brand.....with a SS they dry slower so we like to let the color sit and cure a little before clearing because if you get too much material all at once you can have shrinkage problems and a few other troubles...I like sanding in between mostly to remove dirt and get a very level surface to clear th difference is noticeable...but you can do it all without sanding but the reason your clearing the SS is for an even better look with more depth and most guys dont have a nice booth to paint in so the dirt is a bigger problem....sanding isnt that hard it only takes an hour or two....
 
#25 ·
my gun really lays it on so my personal preferance is two coats at a time and no more than three But different guns and styles of painting dictate how far you can go.
usually when I go to all this trouble,time is not an issue so I'm in no hurry to clear,I might wait as long as a week to clear but I always do the majoity of sanding the color the next day,it seems easier and runs can gas out .then befor I clear I'll sand everything down front to back, if theres any shrinkage this is when I'll catch it.
I've always wet sanded but never used a lot of water,too much water will carry all the paint dust and pool somewhere then when the water evaporates leaving the residue behind and its just messy so I do about a sq. ft. at a time, drying it as i GO and never let the water run from where I'm working,you dont need a water hose and 100 gal of water just a spray pump bottle will do ,all your trying to do is lubricate the paper a little.
I recenty broke down and tried the velcro soft pad on my hutchin DA with the 600 dry paper and I really liked it it worked much better than I thought it would but I still used the 600 by hand first to find the dirt, I'd hate for that thing to catch a piece of trash and roll it all over a hood or something.....Still, I dont think I'll be using it much the potential to screw something up seams a lot higher ,and hand sanding isnt THAT hard or time consuming..
It's the buffing I hate....
 
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