|01-12-2011 04:18 PM|
here is an interesting 396 article
maybe add more compression and cam to make more power. But depends on the gear, stall, trans type.
A 396 to 440 stroker kit is not a bad idea either.
|01-12-2011 12:03 PM|
|Tech @ BG||In regards to our carburetors and sizing on the 396 we would want to look at the final build but typically on a mild 396/427 we like to stay with a 750 annular booster carb for best signal and response. The Speed series is good up to .240@.050 and the Mighty is rated for .240 to .260.|
|01-12-2011 03:01 AM|
Starting out with a "trued" block is an excellent idea, so you're definitely on the right track there.
I'm not the guy you want to get a cam recommendation from, but there are real sharp guys here who will be along to help, I'm sure.
|01-12-2011 02:21 AM|
This sounds like something a little more advanced that I'm going to trust myself doing correctly... something I'm sure I could pick up if I watched it done first. You sure know your motors cobalt!
I was doing some more research around the web and I'm going to just keep the crank and rods that I already have, and use them. I'll definitely be looking at bumping up the CR to 9.5 or 10:1 with some domed pistons though. I'm going to have my Dad take the block back to the machinist and have them check the deck, as I read a lot of factory blocks are not true on both ends. I'm not expecting a big or even minimal gain out of this, I just like having everything the way it should be.
Also, do you or anyone else have suggestions on a good Hydraulic Roller Cam? I've been looking at Lunati Voodoo's... what RPM range should I looking to keep it under and still driveable?
|01-12-2011 12:39 AM|
To get a pretty good estimate of the deck height w/o using expensive tools, you can simply bridge across the bore of the cylinder you're measuring w/a straight edge or machinist rule on edge and use feeler gauges to measure the distance between the straight edge and the piston top, w/the piston at TDC. Measure over the axis of the wrist pin to eliminate the piston's rocking in the bore caused by the piston to wall clearance.
Measure the combustion chamber volume by using an old CD w/the plating scraped off w/a razor blade drawn across the plating backwards (opposite way than if you were going to "shave" it, if you follow me). This flakes off the plating so you can see through the CD to tell if there are bubbles. Or you can use a piece of plastic like plexiglass large enough to fully cover the chamber.
It has to have two holes- one for introducing the fluid, the other to allow the air to escape. Usually, the one hole in a CD is large enough to do both.
Then "glue" the CD or plexi onto the spotlessly clean head surface using vaseline or grease. Leave a spark plug in, and level the head evenly.
Then using a large syringe and rubbing alcohol (has low surface tension) dyed w/food coloring, fill the chamber until completely full, counting the amount of alcohol you used to fill it.
|01-11-2011 11:18 PM|
|396Rookie||cobalt327- Is there measurement tools I can buy to check the cc of the heads and the same for checking deck height... or will I be better of taking it to a shop? I was just checking a bunch of forums for the whole deck height/decking the block debate and if it's worth it. It's a good thing I joined this site and started popping off questions, because I was just planing on slapping it all together... that could've been a big disappointment, and costly!|
|01-11-2011 11:07 PM|
Jegs shows what I consider to be an incorrect compression ratio estimate for the L2240NF pistons I mentioned above (Sealed Power now, not TRW).
Jegs list them as having a 21cc dome. If that's correct, with a bore of 4.124", a stroke of 3.76", a 101cc chamber, a gasket thickness of 0.041 and a zero deck height, I get over 10.2:1 CR. Actually too high for a mild cam on pump gas, IMO.
They say its about 8:1. So something is fishy.
In any case, you'll need to cc the heads and measure the deck height and know what the compressed head gasket thickness is to compute your CR. Start w/cc'ing the heads and measuring the deck height.
Then using a CR calculator, you can figure out what dome volume you need to get the CR you want.
|01-11-2011 10:22 PM|
|396Rookie||Thanks for the info again cobalt! I was wondering about that... I was looking on Jegs.com for the domed pistons. They had 3 different sizes all saying they were specifically for a 396. I guess I'll have to email them to be sure they have the right ones so I don't the valves with the piston...|
|01-11-2011 10:08 PM|
If you go w/higher compression pistons, be sure to spec them for the closed chamber heads. The piston domes for an open chamber head will interfere w/the chamber of your heads. Open chamber domed pistons can sometimes be modified to work, but it's better to get the correct pistons to begin with, IMHO.
Good luck and have fun!
|01-11-2011 10:00 PM|
|396Rookie||Sorry about that F-Bird I didn't see that part on if I was sure they are flat top pistons. The guy who did all my machine work said they were. I bought the motor about 6 years ago at a dumber more excited age and heard BB CHEVY for sale, and had the extra cash so bought is for $1200. I've learned my lesson, I PAID WAY TO MUCH! Although the heads are worth more than that to the right people. I was looking on Craigslist and finding complete 454 engines with 4 bolt mains for $400-500 all over my area in Nebraska.|
|01-11-2011 09:51 PM|
Thanks for the warm welcome ya'll!
F-BIRD'88- I would love to supercharge my 396 but I was wanting something that retains a stock look but still blows the doors off of fart can cars and later generation mustangs/camaros. Thanks for the suggestion though!
cobalt327- I'm very partial to the 396 even though I want to change it drastically. Trust me I'll be building a normal BB after this one, I just want this for street/sleeper car that will see decent drag strip time too. Thanks for the info on the CR for the FT pistons and cams. I was trying to figure out what the CR would be, but couldn't find the right info anywhere. I'll definitely be upgrading to a higher CR piston. I'm not completely set on what cam I'm going to get yet, just want a aggressive hydraulic roller cam.
I'm also waiting on dyno numbers from the shop that built that 461 in CarCraft magazine. I emailed CarCraft directly, but the guy told me he forwarded the email to the shop who built it. I plan on finishing this motor in April when I go on leave, after coming home from Afghanistan.
|01-11-2011 06:42 AM|
The engine with flat tops and the closed chamber heads will be around 8:1 compression ratio. Fine for a mild camshaft or forced induction, but you'll need more CR to run a "choppy" cam w/a lot of duration/overlap.
Use that mother cam if you feel you must, but there are better cams for power out there- that sound less radical. Remember, the choppiness you get from a radical camshaft is a result of the inefficiency of the cam at low RPM. You will need more CR than FT pistons will give you to run that cam, I believe.
I'd rather see you use a set of pistons like the TRW L2240NF. They have a short dome and will get you about 9.5:1 CR, give or take, depending on the head gasket thickness, amount the head's been milled and deck height.
Before I would throw a 4-1/4" stroke crank into a 396 block, I would use the 4.250" nominal bore block from a 427/454 engine. At 0.060" over, a 427/454 block w/a 4-1/4" crank will get you almost 500 cid, plus even more gain from the valves not being shrouded by the small 396 bore.
AFA keeping it stock looking, a 454 looks like a 396 to many guys and the ones who are REALLY sharp won't be fooled anyway.
If you are sold on a 396 block, I'd keep it w/a 3.76" crank and live w/it.An engine in the 400 cid range will run fine w/a carb in the area of 750 CFM.
|01-11-2011 06:11 AM|
The way to even the playing field is to supercharge the lil 396.
if your 396 already has flat top pistons the cr is going to be low.
Supercharger friendly low.
For a maturely asphyxiated street/strip 396 that runs on pump gas you want the cr to be between 9.5 to 10.5. Requires a piston with a dome. The dome volume required will depend on the actual combustion chamber volume of your heads.
Its all in the details.
Are you sure your 396 pistons are flat top? What is the piston part number?
|01-11-2011 04:53 AM|
Welcome to the site.
|01-10-2011 11:07 PM|
I agree Matt! I'm only 26, but when I was in high school I worked for a guy with a trucking business and he had a 69' SS Chevelle. That car just got me hooked.
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