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Topic Review (Newest First)
01-18-2011 09:40 PM
001mustang
Quote:
Originally Posted by deadbodyman
... My compressor broke a ring and was blowing oil into the air line while I was painting and I never knew it and didnt have the proper filters because they were to expensive the whole car came back with little tiny bumps all over it about a month later.......
That's not good.

Hmmm..hope my sharpe 3 stage filter system will take out the oil like it claims???

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/too...&ci_sku=406760

Or else I will be looking for some of your TP.
01-18-2011 09:32 PM
66GMC Thanks oldred.

I have read many of your contributions here at HR.com , and truly respect and appreciate both your expertise and your attitude.

You do have a way of stating, explaining, and backing up your beliefs in a non-condescending and/or non-offensive manner.

01-18-2011 09:29 PM
001mustang
Quote:
Originally Posted by DadTruck
001mustang

you say on "most days"

does that mean on "some" days you are willing to put up with defective painted surfaces, issues with sand clumping when blasting,, due to moisture,,,

if you are putting in an effective air system, you will spend a few bucks, for a nickel more, you have moisture issues under control, forever.

again, its just me, I will nickel and dime a lot of things,, painting, including surface prep, blasting is not one of them,, its either perfect, or its not,
there is nothing in between.
I only paint on days when ambient temp is in proper range.
Haven't tried to paint car on rainy day recently.
I have sharpe desiccant system but don't use it all the time.
Typically valve it in for CC; my media lasts a long time.
I was thinking I wasted money on desiccant system since most of the water drops out in long cooling line.
Maybe I should use media when priming, etc. Couldn't hurt.
01-18-2011 09:00 PM
oldred
Quote:
Originally Posted by 66GMC
That's brilliant, I think!
Add just ONE more tee onto the bottom of that, a fair length of vertical tube and a ball valve to the bottom of that ... and I think we have a winner.



The diagram you have in that post is an example of what I am talking about, there would be little or no water drain into that first drop before the filter while the air was moving and very little while the air was static. The only reason for the water to flow into the drain pipe (drop) would of course be gravity but inertia would easily overcome the gravity while the air is flowing and when static the water would be distributed throughout the system and would have no reason to collect at the trap. The bottom pipe could be tilted so that it lay at an angle and some water would tend to drain into the trap while there was no air flow but when the air starts moving the water will, for the most part, simply pass over the drain. The bottom line is the system must be arranged vertically to work as good as it does, it is much more than just a way to squeeze a long line into a small area.
01-18-2011 08:58 PM
deadbodyman
Quote:
Originally Posted by 001mustang
I have found that air cooled in 50' 3/4" sloped copper pipe negates need for dessicant filter on most days. Do you concur?
NO .that only cools the vapor to liquid you still need to control the moisture with decisent if these filters wernt doing anything they would never have to be changed . if your not painting for a living you can get away with a few things but I cant take chances.
Example: My compressor broke a ring and was blowing oil into the air line while I was painting and I never knew it and didnt have the proper filters because they were to expensive the whole car came back with little tiny bumps all over it about a month later...it was my responsilbility so I had to fix it...I had already fixed the compressor but good filters would have prevented the whole affair. Save money wherever you can but even if you only have some cheap filters.... have them, its hard enough to buy materials for your own car but it really sucks to buy them for someone elses...good quality air is one of the MOST important parts of a long lasting, quality job...and everybody seems to over look it.even pros that should know better.I've seen air hoses spewing water like a shower at a couple of shops....
01-18-2011 08:48 PM
oldred
Quote:
Originally Posted by ogre
66gmc
you did this and needed 4 drain valves
__ __
| | | |
| | | |
| |_| |

had you turned it 90 degrees like this
you would have needed 1 drain valve
________
________]
[_______
________]
[________

good idea though


Actually there is far more to it than just the number of drains involved, it works MUCH more efficiently vertically and while it would cool the air in the horizontal position it would do next to nothing to remove the moisture. In the vertical position the air is flowing both up and down while the water that condenses drains down into the traps where the air flows past it without disturbing it, this is very important if the water is to remain trapped. Also by laying the pipe horizontal the water that condenses would simply be carried with the air flow and would tend to pass over the drain (drop trap) instead of draining into it. When placed vertically the air will be flowing straight down and then it has to make an abrupt turn to flow back up again, inertia will cause the heavier water to resist this turn and force it to flow down into the drop trap where it will sit undisturbed as the air flows over it until such time as it is drained. Basically in the vertical position the system uses inertia to "sling" the water out of the air in a spot where it can flow by gravity into traps, while the same inertia would be present at the elbows in the horizontal position the water obviously has no where to drain and will will continue with the air flow until it reaches the end of the pipe. After reaching the end of the pipe any water that has condensed will be traveling at about the same velocity as the air flow and if traveling along a horizontal pipe would have to make an abrupt turn to go down into a trap but then inertia would cause it to pass over the trap instead of draining into it. For sure if it were to be positioned horizontally it would need only one drain and that one would catch very little water, arranging those pipes vertically instead of horizontally will work far better and in fact in a horizontal position they would do no more than a straight pipe.
01-18-2011 08:36 PM
deadbodyman LOL,The original filter looks like recyled paper (it's brown),Ive been using TP for about 10yrs now,ever since I went down to get a replacement and they wanted something like 20.00 for it. I kept looking at it and looking at it and finally said: You gotta be sheeting me.....even the guys behind the counter were laughing their as's off.
I have a ball valve and an air fitting BEFORE the TP filter and the one for painting after it, so I only use it when painting and it lasts a good long time but if you got water in your lines you'll know quick enough just give it a twirl and check it to see if its wet.
those real cheap rolls arnt wide enough so I get the big ones (Scott 1000 sheets) and unwind it till they fit nice and snug not tight.(the wife gets mad if I take her soft&fluffy stuff) Its the only filter I feel is worth buying...My old booth had a 300.00 devilbis decisent filter and I got mad every time I replaced the balls.... there's nothing to it.
I cant believe I didnt make ONE joke,theres a lot of wasted material here.
OK, one warning : never take the last roll and leave your wife home without checking the holder in the bathroom there may only be two or three sheets left.she'll be waiting for you in the driveway when you get home....
01-18-2011 08:31 PM
DadTruck 001mustang

you say on "most days"

does that mean on "some" days you are willing to put up with defective painted surfaces, issues with sand clumping when blasting,, due to moisture,,,

if you are putting in an effective air system, you will spend a few bucks, for a nickel more, you have moisture issues under control, forever.

again, its just me, I will nickel and dime a lot of things,, painting, including surface prep, blasting is not one of them,, its either perfect, or its not,
there is nothing in between.
01-18-2011 08:19 PM
001mustang
Quote:
Originally Posted by deadbodyman
At the scrap yard I found a 30' coil of 1/2" aluminum tubing connected it to the tank ,the dang thing looks like a moonshine still but it cools the hot air pretty well...
I have found that air cooled in 50' 3/4" sloped copper pipe negates need for dessicant filter on most days. Do you concur?
01-18-2011 06:58 PM
DadTruck 35windsor,, or silverback

interested in the Motor Guard final filter,,
what is the filter medium used on the motor guard 60, is it a toilet paper roll,
what kind of life are you seeing? how do you know when to change it. Are you using standard TP rolls?

35 windsor,, saw some real poor reviews of the HF regulator / filter,, the HF regulator and oiler I bought was of very poor workmanship. Is yours working OK?



thanks

and if someone wants a really cheap desiccant dryer,,
and they have access to a pipe threading machine,, the HF dryer is really nothing more than a 2 foot length of 2 inch steel pipe, with a cap on each end,
the lower cap has a nipple drilled and threaded for a drain, weld on air in and out pipes, put in screens to contain the desiccant,,there you go.
if you have the pipe and caps,
the nipples and fittings and screening
the threading machine and weld equipment and supplies,
this can be done for nothing other than the investment of time and desiccant.
that's as inexpensive as it gets,
01-17-2011 10:07 PM
deadbodyman
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silverback
heh, he said cheap... your sharp probably cost me more than my whole setup incluing all the fittings to get it to connect together, assorted valves so I can turn off any part, quick connects...

that said:
- no inspection window
- the only hard part about swapping desiccant is the way I mounted it (literally, untread cap and dump it out, in theory with it mounted to the wall you can unthread the bottom cap, dump it, unthread top cap to refill, no disconnecting air lines or anything)
- No leaks- that was the big hassle with home built, I spent a lot of time chasing leaks with my older setups
- No rust that I've seen, though I don't see why it couldn't. that is the reason that I have the motorguard after it, nothing steel comes in contact with the air on the other side of the motorguard.
Is your motorgaurd the toilet paper canister??? mine started corroding and spitting out trash so I cleaned it up good and epoxy primed the inside ,it works like new again ,no reason you coudnt do that to the HF decisent filter to keep it from rusting.But afterall its a piece of pipe with threaded ends ,thats pretty much it'
At the scrap yard I found a 30' coil of 1/2" aluminum tubing connected it to the tank ,the dang thing looks like a moonshine still but it cools the hot air pretty well.BTW that motor gaurd toilet paper filter is about the best filter you can start with,I think it cast about fifty bucks definately worth the money..
01-17-2011 09:11 PM
66GMC
Quote:
Originally Posted by ogre
66gmc
you did this and needed 4 drain valves
__ __
| | | |
| | | |
| |_| |

had you turned it 90 degrees like this
you would have needed 1 drain valve
________
________]
[_______
________]
[________

good idea though
That's brilliant, I think!
Add just ONE more tee onto the bottom of that, a fair length of vertical tube and a ball valve to the bottom of that ... and I think we have a winner.
01-17-2011 06:33 PM
deadbodyman
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldred
That system with the second tank is what we used to call a "Thump tank" and it does indeed work quite well. Another common setup I have seen uses a large pipe set vertically or, as was often done, a large drive shaft was used. This does work quite well and does for the reasons described just keep the "Thump tank" on regulated pressure.


BTW shouldn't be Physics class?
Take that drive shaft (or 4" x 12" pipe threaded at both ends with caps) and just fill it with desicant balls from HF ...Your "in" tube goes to the bottom ,the out side is just tapped into the top cap...Dont use PVC though...
01-17-2011 12:04 PM
ogre 66gmc
you did this and needed 4 drain valves
__ __
| | | |
| | | |
| |_| |

had you turned it 90 degrees like this
you would have needed 1 drain valve
________
________]
[_______
________]
[________

good idea though
01-16-2011 06:21 PM
66GMC
Quote:
Originally Posted by matts37chev
so ultimately he may still be better off getting something like this.
especially since it has a regulator and gauge included
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/DVR-130525/

Wellllll ... I dunno.
The cooling tower is a one-time investment, and requires very little maintenance.

I sold a Wix Aquacheck system to a customer which worked quite well, but I suggested my cooling tower idea to him in order to extend the life of his filters. I do know that he came up with a cooling tower design of his own, but I left the store and no longer have him as a customer. It would be interesting to find out how the two worked together.
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