Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board - Reply to Topic
Hotrodders.com -- Hot Rod Forum



Register FAQ Search Today's Posts Unanswered Posts Auto Escrow Insurance Auto Loans
Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board > Tech Help> Garage - Tools> Radiant floor question
User Name
Password
lost password?   |   register now

Thread: Radiant floor question Reply to Thread
Title:
  
Message:
Trackback:
Send Trackbacks to (Separate multiple URLs with spaces) :

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name (usually not your first and last name), your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Additional Options
Miscellaneous Options

Topic Review (Newest First)
10-27-2014 12:15 AM
ArronEhrhart
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArronEhrhart View Post
I have the PEC tubing in the floor of my shop and would not trade it for any thing. Little further south than you, but in the mountains so don't think our winter temps are that far apart. I lived in Utah for 6 years with infloor heat and it was the best heating system I ever had. Two oversized 2 car garages with infloor heat and stayed at 50* all winter long. The primary heat source for the water was solar, with a tiny Paloma natural gas heater as a back up. The solar panels manufactured in solar panels factory worked every day, regardless of the cloud or snow cover. Saw some temps down to -34F and the inside temp never varied more than 1/2 *. My shop has a 22' apex and it is chilly up there, but comfortable on the shop floor. The thermostat is set for 50* and holds well except if a roll up door is open for more than a few minutes. The thing about radiant heat, all of the vehicles, tool boxes, benches etc absorb the radiant heat and act like a reservoir of heat. They and furniture are a plus, not a negative. I use propane to heat the circilating water and have a 100 gal tank. This winter, I will use less than 350 gallons and the heat has been on since the first of Nov and will probably go off in mid to late March. This year, we will add hot water solar panels to the roof and the propane will become the back up.

As mentioned earlier, if you pour a 5 inch floor, then you will not have to worry about putting your lag bolts in if the PEC is installed 2" above the foam insulation and you don't try to drill your holes more than 2.5". Two inches is plenty for a 4 post lift, using epoxy to anchor them in. If you are going to install a 2 point, you might consider enlarging the foot print and adding more anchors. Do a search on my thread, Designing a New Work Shop and there are a lot of pictures and verbage on how it was constructed.

Trees
Thanks for sharing out your views.. I will definitely follow you as there are many design information which I want to collect
Yes it can start as it is very interesting topic to discuss..
10-25-2014 10:16 AM
35terraplane Welcome to the forum. You might not see too much on this as this is a 3 year old thread, but then again it might start up again also.

Bob
10-25-2014 08:46 AM
ArronEhrhart
Quote:
Originally Posted by trees View Post
I have the PEC tubing in the floor of my shop and would not trade it for any thing. Little further south than you, but in the mountains so don't think our winter temps are that far apart. I lived in Utah for 6 years with infloor heat and it was the best heating system I ever had. Two oversized 2 car garages with infloor heat and stayed at 50* all winter long. The primary heat source for the water was solar, with a tiny Paloma natural gas heater as a back up. The solar panels worked every day, regardless of the cloud or snow cover. Saw some temps down to -34F and the inside temp never varied more than 1/2 *. My shop has a 22' apex and it is chilly up there, but comfortable on the shop floor. The thermostat is set for 50* and holds well except if a roll up door is open for more than a few minutes. The thing about radiant heat, all of the vehicles, tool boxes, benches etc absorb the radiant heat and act like a reservoir of heat. They and furniture are a plus, not a negative. I use propane to heat the circilating water and have a 100 gal tank. This winter, I will use less than 350 gallons and the heat has been on since the first of Nov and will probably go off in mid to late March. This year, we will add hot water solar panels to the roof and the propane will become the back up.

As mentioned earlier, if you pour a 5 inch floor, then you will not have to worry about putting your lag bolts in if the PEC is installed 2" above the foam insulation and you don't try to drill your holes more than 2.5". Two inches is plenty for a 4 post lift, using epoxy to anchor them in. If you are going to install a 2 point, you might consider enlarging the foot print and adding more anchors. Do a search on my thread, Designing a New Work Shop and there are a lot of pictures and verbage on how it was constructed.

Trees
Thanks for sharing out your views.. I will definitely follow you as there are many design information which I want to collect
02-27-2011 06:42 PM
35terraplane
radiant floor heat

Quote:
Originally Posted by trees
Bob, I use the term "loop" because the line /water leaves the manifold and makes its way through the coils and back to the manifold. A "zone" one or more "loops" off a common manifold and controlled by a thermostat. In my shop, there are two zones: one has 4 loops and one has 3 loops. The 4 looper covers 1400 sq ft and the 3 looper covers 1000 sq ft.

Before signing the contract for the system, I spent several evenings on the net where there is a ton of info on various systems. One thing that was common was copper is definitely the best tube for circulating the water: flexible, sturdy, and the best heat transfer rating PEC is the 2nd choice and the only reason I used it was the terrible price of copper tubing. Using copper would have almost doubled the cost of the system.

The pressure testing of the loops was a local code item, but I would have insisted on it anyway because finding a leak would be a bear and then the repair is not something I would want to do or have done.

Trees
Trees I used loop because I didn't have a clue on what else you call it.
After writing my post, I called the guy that built my house and shop, I got to thinking about a pin hole or something. He told me they did a pressure test, I guess I was sleeping in that day.

Bob


She was only a whiskey maker,

But he loved her still.
02-27-2011 05:30 PM
trees Bob, I use the term "loop" because the line /water leaves the manifold and makes its way through the coils and back to the manifold. A "zone" one or more "loops" off a common manifold and controlled by a thermostat. In my shop, there are two zones: one has 4 loops and one has 3 loops. The 4 looper covers 1400 sq ft and the 3 looper covers 1000 sq ft.

Before signing the contract for the system, I spent several evenings on the net where there is a ton of info on various systems. One thing that was common was copper is definitely the best tube for circulating the water: flexible, sturdy, and the best heat transfer rating PEC is the 2nd choice and the only reason I used it was the terrible price of copper tubing. Using copper would have almost doubled the cost of the system.

The pressure testing of the loops was a local code item, but I would have insisted on it anyway because finding a leak would be a bear and then the repair is not something I would want to do or have done.

Trees
02-26-2011 03:33 PM
66GMC When I built my garage, I was pretty hyped about in-floor heating.
Yes a warm floor would be a godsend if you spend a lot of time lying or kneeling on it.
The downside is that recovery times from opening a door would be considerable, and might even require a forced-air unit to re-heat the air.

After studying all of that, and weighing the costs and risks involved ... I was persuaded by a few friends to simply install a radiant-tube heater, along with a couple of industrial-type ceiling fans.


The radiant heat warms ME more than the air, but it also warms things like windshields and car bodies ... which in turn help to warm the air. My garage is well-built with 6" walls, vapor barrier, and R20 insulation.

The ceiling fans help to circulate the air under the vehicles and to warm the floor to a relitively comfortable temp. They also keep the windows clear.

In summer, the air movement over the cool engineered concrete slab helps to keep the garage at a fairly consistent and comfortable 20C (70F) temperature even during the hottest of days we get here.

It was relatively cheap to purchase and easy to install, and very economical to run as well. I heat my garage continuously as I have pets that live out there, but friends run theirs only when they plan to use their garage. It only takes about 1/2 hour before it gets comfortable enough to be out there.
02-26-2011 03:32 PM
LATECH
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Fool
That is just plain bs , Expansion and contraction? how much do they think that concrete slab grows and shrinks? PEX tubing has a 100% minimum expansion rate. How do you think it survives having the end expanded to insert a fitting , such as the Wirsbo PEX system uses? PEX tubing is not affected by concrete, it is designed to be used in concrete. Your source must be referring to someone who used some other type of tubing. Can't fix a leak? Yes it is a bit difficult to fix the leak, you need to chip the concrete away from the tubing to put a repair coupling in it, but unless you drill a hole in it there won't be a leak. A continious loop of PEX poured into concrete is virtually impervious to damage
ALLRIGHTY THEN. Now that we have cleared that up.Sure am glad i didnt use that guy for my house.
I was questioning the info I got .I personally dont like pex anyway, too newfangled.
I do understand what you are saying about the expansion and contraction of the tubing and the concrete.
Like I said , what I have heard were horror stories, as far as I am concerned the jury is still out. Call me stupid if you like, I just dont jump on every NEW thing as the BEST thing.
I see alot of posts that guys put up saying it is the way to go,must be something I am missing. I am kinda hardheaded
02-26-2011 01:33 PM
35terraplane
radiant floor heat

Quote:
Originally Posted by trees
A qualified in floor heat guy will pressurize the loops for about 48 hours before the pour and leave it on until ready to hook up the system to the manifolds. Having pictures of the loops before the pour helps to ease you mind when core drilling for anchor bolts later.

Trees
They never put any pressure on mine, but it was two big loops, one for each zone.
My house is the same I have five zones and they are each one loop no splices or breaks in tube from start to finish, And they run pretty close, when I say loop I might be using the wrong term, as the tube went back and forth across the room or zone, not a big circle.
It's just like wiring a car less breaks in a wire less trouble.
So one end was hooked up to the out manifold, the other to the return, there were no breaks in between.

Bob
02-26-2011 01:06 PM
trees A qualified in floor heat guy will pressurize the loops for about 48 hours before the pour and leave it on until ready to hook up the system to the manifolds. Having pictures of the loops before the pour helps to ease you mind when core drilling for anchor bolts later.

Trees
02-26-2011 08:44 AM
timothale
pex radiant.

All splices- joints must be out of the concrete. continuous run under the concrete. as far as expansion contraction, I have seen concrete roads buckle in the hot sun . That should not be a problem inside a building out of direct sun. if you build over expansive clay soils you can have floor cracking. In a lot of areas the local building department already has area soil maps. I hit clay down at 4 ft. My engineer spec'd 3 ft sq footings with 12 in sq posts with 6 pieces of 1/2 rebar uprights with 3/8 hula hoops 6 in apart for the steel column supports. There has been no movement in the 20 post locations. The footings must be deep enough for the soil type or a grade post-beam system. 18 inch holes about 6 ft deep with rebar L'ed into the floor, and foundation walls about a foot thick floor around the edges and use lots of rebar in the floor slab. Plenty of crushed rock then poly vapor barrier, sand and foam insulation. Grade the area around the building to keep rain and snow melt water away. In my main 12 X 12 doorway I also brought out 1/2 rebar 18 inches apart to tie into the driveway slab The backhoe weighs about 10 tons. . In 9 years there has been no movement or cracking in the main doorway. . In the back door the slab has lifted about 1/2 inch, I didn't put in the rebar ties out like the front and the ground base level is 18 inches higher, not as good of drainage. I had about 100 yards of base gravel hauled for under the floor, I should have raised it more, but didn't like having to do a 3 ft in 40 ft ramp in front.
02-26-2011 07:52 AM
1ownerT Pressurize the PEX while pouring, any leak will be evident and easy to find as it will bubble up through the wet concrete, giving a chance to repair before the concrete sets.
02-26-2011 06:16 AM
Old Fool
Quote:
Originally Posted by latech
I have heard some horror stories from some of the HVAC guys here in Northeast Pa about the concrete not being so friendly to the pex tubing.
It doent like the expansion / contraction thing as well as the chemicals from the concrete while curing.If it springs a leak for whatever reason ,you cant fix it.
Honestly If it were me, I would put in radiant baseboard around the perimiter of the shop, use an outdoor boiler and an oil fired one for backup with a heat exchanger. There are outdoor woodstoves that can be multifueled, but I have checked into that for my remod, and they arent as efficient as putting in a dedicated unit.
With radiant it feels warm all the time and it is very even heat. Fanforced only feels warm when it is running, it stirs up a buttload of dust and its impossible to put the "unit" outdoors to contain the burner away from the air in the shop(VOC , solvents thinners etc. explosion...you get it)
I like the outdoor woodburner my neighbor has, itkeeps his house at 80 degrees inside all winter long.
I have an oil fired burner and my house is small and tight, I have used 275 gallons of oil so far this winter.
If oil keeps going up, I will be getting an outdoor stove and putting in a heat exchange for the hydronic (radiant baseboard) system in my house. If the fire goes down at night the oil fired boiler will pickup the slack.
Linn A
Quote:
Originally Posted by latech
I have heard some horror stories from some of the HVAC guys here in Northeast Pa about the concrete not being so friendly to the pex tubing.
It doent like the expansion / contraction thing as well as the chemicals from the concrete while curing.If it springs a leak for whatever reason ,you cant fix it.
That is just plain bs , Expansion and contraction? how much do they think that concrete slab grows and shrinks? PEX tubing has a 100% minimum expansion rate. How do you think it survives having the end expanded to insert a fitting , such as the Wirsbo PEX system uses? PEX tubing is not affected by concrete, it is designed to be used in concrete. Your source must be referring to someone who used some other type of tubing. Can't fix a leak? Yes it is a bit difficult to fix the leak, you need to chip the concrete away from the tubing to put a repair coupling in it, but unless you drill a hole in it there won't be a leak. A continious loop of PEX poured into concrete is virtually impervious to damage
02-25-2011 06:00 PM
35terraplane
radiant floor heat.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ogre
i do like teraplane's system. if you need air use the window units and then go with radiant floors.
my shop was retrofitted from an old barn

teraplane: nice freaking shop
Thank you, Since it was built I have had to add to it. In the picture behind my boat, and bathroom, I have added a 12' X 16' kick out for some more room, no heat in floor there but don't need it as it is not a work space.
Also wanted to make sure my shop had more sq. feet than the house, just to needle the wife a little.

Bob
02-25-2011 11:48 AM
ogre i do like teraplane's system. if you need air use the window units and then go with radiant floors.
my shop was retrofitted from an old barn

teraplane: nice freaking shop
02-25-2011 10:16 AM
trees 37, adding another on the opposite wall would make you doubly good.

Trees
This thread has more than 15 replies. Click here to review the whole thread.

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:12 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
Copyright Hotrodders.com 1999 - 2012. All Rights Reserved.