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welding on gas tanks

5K views 50 replies 18 participants last post by  sqzbox 
#1 ·
I was reading all the members experiences while welding on fuel tanks and I respect everyones experiences and I am sory about the fatalities and accidents mentioned. However my experience concerning the subject is very simple. I grew up in Puerto Rico and we were very poor. As the Island is sourounded by an ocean, salt is every where around you. Gas tanks ussually rust easy. So been poor we do not have a choice but to weld and patch our tanks. The way I weld without any fear!! is removing the sending unit and making sure the fill tube is open, fill it all the way to the top with water, aply an open flame through the sending unit hole. A very small noise indicates the little fumes left between the water and thevery top of the fuel tank just burned up. No danger at all and most of the times you do not even notice the noise.
At this time you can drain the water and weld all you want or cut it in pieces if you want to dispose it.

Like I said, this is my way of welding on tanks. I have been doing it for 45 years in the auto restoration bussiness without a single incident.
 
#27 ·
Crosley said:
I then hooked a hose up to my diesel powered VW Rabbit exhaust pipe into the tank. No more problems


You had no more problems because you had already burned what gas was in the tank, what you did then was take a non-problem and created one by adding the exhaust although exhaust in a tank that small was probably not very dangerous.
 
#28 · (Edited)
adantessr said:
Sorry Red. Just that we did a lot of tanks this way back in Wyoming. Here in WV we started sending most of our tanks out but some of the welders would weld the diesel tanks if they had been washed out real good with water and then filled from the top with CO2. As a foreman I never required any of my welders to weld a tank. They always had the option to say no, but most often one of the welders on the other shift would weld it anyway.

Middlesboro KY 1977, I was there when a tank that was being purged with diesel exhaust exploded and killed one of my friends so don't tell me it won't do it-IT MOST CERTAINLY WILL! This accident is the reason I have been so adamant in trying to get the point across about doing this very stupid stunt, it can, it has and it will kill people! A couple of years later another tank exploded at a mine nearby after being purged with a diesel engine but fortunately that time no one was seriously injured. Upon completion of the accident investigation of the fatality by MSHA a copy of the investigation report that MSHA sent to the company was posted in the shop and it clearly stated that this accident was caused by exploding exhaust fumes, diesel in this case, and that it was one of a series of similar such accidents that had happened over a five year period. The fact that most times it works is why it is still sometimes done but when it don't work the results can be disastrous and that is a proven fact!


Another incident in Hazard KY, about 1995, involved a NEW tank that was being built had been filled with exhaust from a diesel engine in attempt to find leaks prior to it's first filling. This tank had never had diesel fuel or gasoline in it but when they tried to weld one of the leaks they found the fumes inside suddenly burned with enough force to swell the tank, again it was fortunate no one was hurt.
 
#29 ·
adantessr said:
we started sending most of our tanks out but some of the welders would weld the diesel tanks if they had been washed out real good with water and then filled from the top with CO2.


Maybe we have a misunderstanding here, I am talking about purging a tank with diesel fumes not welding on a diesel fuel tank which I have seen done many times without purging with anything. (I am not recommending doing that nor saying it is safe, it is not safe). It is the exhaust fumes, diesel or gasoline, that is dangerous and purging a diesel tank with CO2 does make it safe if done properly.
 
#30 ·
welding gas tanks

oldred said:
Maybe we have a misunderstanding here, I am talking about purging a tank with diesel fumes not welding on a diesel fuel tank which I have seen done many times without purging with anything. (I am not recommending doing that nor saying it is safe, it is not safe). It is the exhaust fumes, diesel or gasoline, that is dangerous and purging a diesel tank with CO2 does make it safe if done properly.
When I put my post on this a few posts back, I sure wasn't telling anybody to go ahead and do it. I can weld, but I would not do my own. There are places that know how to do it, let them. We can discuss this until the cows come home and won't get anywhere. :nono:
I had a buddy, that would weld railroad cars that carried things that went boom. :sweat: :sweat: He would not think twice about getting into one and welding, he was inside. It can be done but let the people that know how do it, it doesn't work for them all the time either. :drunk: :smash: :nono:

Bob


Healthy is merely the slowest possible rate at which one can die. :rolleyes: :mwink: :thumbup:
 
#31 ·
If I ever have to fix another gas tank I will use vinyl ester resin and layup a fiberglass covering on the tank..that material is used to make fiberglass fuel tanks for boats and undrground fuel storage tanks..that way i get the shape and size i need and a good tank..

Sam
 
#32 ·
35terraplane said:
When I put my post on this a few posts back, I sure wasn't telling anybody to go ahead and do it. I can weld, but I would not do my own. There are places that know how to do it, let them. We can discuss this until the cows come home and won't get anywhere. :nono:
I had a buddy, that would weld railroad cars that carried things that went boom. :sweat: :sweat: He would not think twice about getting into one and welding, he was inside. It can be done but let the people that know how do it, it doesn't work for them all the time either. :drunk: :smash: :nono:

Bob


Healthy is merely the slowest possible rate at which one can die. :rolleyes: :mwink: :thumbup:


I think maybe there has been a major misunderstanding here, I know a gas tank can be safely welded and there are several ways of doing so-I have welded a heck of a lot of them my self in the past 35 years or so. The point I have been trying to make is that purging with exhaust, ANY kind of engine exhaust, can be even more deadly than the tank contents sometimes. If I got a bit carried away and offended anyone by bringing up the exhaust when the tank contents were the subject then I certainly want to apologize but that exhaust trick is something I can never forget and is something of a touchy subject for me. I know for a fact purging with exhaust is very dangerous but sometimes in the past I have met people who simply will not believe it, although I don't remember that being the case here and I am not talking about anyone here I am talking about people I have dealt with in the past in the repair business. Purging with CO2 was mentioned and that does work quite well for both gasoline and diesel tanks and is an accepted way of doing this, BUT it must be done properly and by someone who understands doing it. There are many ways to do this safely and some ways that are common and not so safe but I think that most people, who if they had witnessed the accident that I saw, would better understand why I get so carried away when this subject comes up-it is something I will never forget and never give up trying to prevent when the subject comes up.
 
#33 ·
welding a gas tank

oldred said:
I think maybe there has been a major misunderstanding here, I know a gas tank can be safely welded and there are several ways of doing so-I have welded a heck of a lot of them my self in the past 35 years or so. The point I have been trying to make is that purging with exhaust, ANY kind of engine exhaust, can be even more deadly than the tank contents sometimes. If I got a bit carried away and offended anyone by bringing up the exhaust when the tank contents were the subject then I certainly want to apologize but that exhaust trick is something I can never forget and is something of a touchy subject for me. I know for a fact purging with exhaust is very dangerous but sometimes in the past I have met people who simply will not believe it, although I don't remember that being the case here and I am not talking about anyone here I am talking about people I have dealt with in the past in the repair business. Purging with CO2 was mentioned and that does work quite well for both gasoline and diesel tanks and is an accepted way of doing this, BUT it must be done properly and by someone who understands doing it. There are many ways to do this safely and some ways that are common and not so safe but I think that most people, who if they had witnessed the accident that I saw, would better understand why I get so carried away when this subject comes up-it is something I will never forget and never give up trying to prevent when the subject comes up.
I know just what you were talking about, I took your posts as let those that do it, do it. Don't go by some wifes tail, give it to the pro's. :D :thumbup:
I was just saying as far as myself that's what I would tell someone. I don't want to know how they do IT because I might just get one wild hair up my A-- to try it, and I can barley walk on earth, let alone the moon. :rolleyes: :mwink: :thumbup:

Bob

Who was the first person to look at a cow and say, 'I think I'll squeeze these dagly things and drink whatever comes out?' :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :D
 
#34 ·
I repaired a leaking gas tank on my '78 K-10 by removing it and washing it out and then repaired with fiberglass cloth and resin. As far as welding fuel tanks, we were able to obtain the recommended and accepted procedure from MSHA, which invloved using CO2 and and an O2 meter to make sure that there wasn't enough oxygetn present in the tank to support combustion. The ONLY safe way to do it, no matter what others may have gotten by with.
 
#35 ·
adantessr said:
I repaired a leaking gas tank on my '78 K-10 by removing it and washing it out and then repaired with fiberglass cloth and resin. As far as welding fuel tanks, we were able to obtain the recommended and accepted procedure from MSHA, which invloved using CO2 and and an O2 meter to make sure that there wasn't enough oxygetn present in the tank to support combustion. The ONLY safe way to do it, no matter what others may have gotten by with.
the industry standard for prepping/cleaning gas tankers is to use steam.
you put steam hoses in them for about 4 hours, then check them with a sniffer. :cool:
we have used co2 in a mobile repair type scenario :thumbup:
 
#36 ·
oldred said:
You had no more problems because you had already burned what gas was in the tank, what you did then was take a non-problem and created one by adding the exhaust although exhaust in a tank that small was probably not very dangerous.
I completely disagree with your assessment, I did not create a problem with diesel fumes. I stopped one
 
#37 ·
Crosley said:
I completely disagree with your assessment, I did not create a problem with diesel fumes. I stopped one

No you did not and people have been killed by doing that, I personally saw it happen! There have been many cases of this happening and after being in the welding/equipment repair business for over 35 years I know of several tank/exhaust explosions with at least three that were being purged with diesel fumes including the one that caused the fatality. Do as wish but that stunt is dangerous, very dangerous and just because you got away with it does not make it safe. Most of the time it works, just depends on the mixture, and that is why some people still do this but it only takes once to cause a serious accident. You most certainly did create a more hazardous situation and past accidents along with just plain common senses bear that out, believe what you like but most people know better and getting on here and pointing at the one you got away with will not change that!
 
#38 ·
oldred said:
No you did not and people have been killed by doing that, I personally saw it happen! There have been many cases of this happening and after being in the welding/equipment repair business for over 35 years I know of several tank/exhaust explosions with at least three that were being purged with diesel fumes including the one that caused the fatality. Do as wish but that stunt is dangerous, very dangerous and just because you got away with it does not make it safe. Most of the time it works, just depends on the mixture, and that is why some people still do this but it only takes once to cause a serious accident. You most certainly did create a more hazardous situation and past accidents along with just plain common senses bear that out, believe what you like but most people know better and getting on here and pointing at the one you got away with will not change that!

I have used the diesel fume in the tank many times. No problems.

I've used dry ice too. Too hard to find the dry ice, diesel fumes are close

i disagree with your assessment of the way I repair tanks, it works for me. I did not create a dangerous situation, it worked fine many times

:pimp:
 
#39 · (Edited)
Crosley said:
I have used the diesel fume in the tank many times. No problems.:

Like I said it does work most of the time BUT just like several very dangerous things some people will do it sometimes does NOT work and then you and possibly others around you could be in a world of hurt!


Man think about what you are doing! Those fumes are explosive, all they need is the proper air mix and you have little control over that. Like I have said several times the reason I am so adamant in my condemnation of this practice is what I have seen happen! You are insisting that what you are doing is safe and are telling others it is safe and you are doing this based on getting away with it a couple of times.


Crosley I saw a man burned to death doing this stupid stunt, by the time the fire was quenched and we got the ambulance to him he was alive and talking but burned so badly all he had left on his body was a few tatters of clothing and his boots and belt. Every time this has come up I would not go into details of this accident out of respect for this man but you are insisting that what you are doing is safe when it absolutely is NOT and I intend to warn others whenever and where ever I can. Do what you wish to yourself but don't come on here and tell others it is safe, I know better and so does most everyone else but I guess some just won't learn until it is too late. You can preach that procedure is safe till doomsday but I know of at least the 3 tanks I have already mentioned that exploded using diesel exhaust, one exploded violently and caused the fatality but the other two were fairly minor and resulted only in swelling of the tanks and no one was hurt. If what you think is safe then how the hell could that new tank explode when it had never had anything in it BUT diesel exhaust? Continue insisting this nonsense if you like but peoples' safety is at stake here, doing that is extremely dangerous and telling others it is OK is being extremely irresponsible!



Fellows this is an emotional subject for me and I have come on pretty strong about it in the past but it is not because I am trying to be a sm@^#***** or know-it-all. I have seen with my own two eyes the results of doing this stunt and I know of it happening in other cases with only minor results, still even those could be considered close calls. Welding on gas/fuel tanks is a common problem in our hobby and was very commonly done in my line of work so that is why I was aware of the incidents I have mentioned. I might come on a bit strong over this one but my gosh I know what can happen and it really gets too me when someone comes here and tells others doing something this dangerous is safe. I will continue to try and pass on what I know for a fact about doing something that could be tempting for someone to try, it is certainly not my intention to insult anyone but the dangers of this procedure are real and the results could be deadly. Let's just be safe and not take chances and fellows a gas/fuel tank can be a big risk, there have been many people hurt and even killed trying to repair these things so don't let it happen because of an old "urban legend" method luring you into doing something you might later regret.
 
#40 ·
welding gas tanks

I went to a lot of Forums trying to find an answer, everyone had about the same answers. Some said use this or use that no problem,I have done it many times. Others would say those methods aren't safe do it this way or that. So in the end I didn't find out a damn thing. But a lot of pro-welders would say wash it out, then fill it with a inert gas to purge, like CO2 or argon.
Me well I'm going to take it to the guy farthest from home that will do it, drop it off and go back home, wait for a call, if I don't get one I will order a new tank, because the old one might be on the moon. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :mwink: :D

Bob
 
#41 ·
Jim Rockford said:
Bunch of sissies. Good thing our forefathers wheren't a bunch of scared wussies, scared to take a chance on something unknown or dangerous, otherwise we would still be roaming around in the dark scared of every little noise. This country was built on people being adaptive and doing what it took to get the job done, Now accountants and lawyers and ***** *** government agencies have neutered this country so much we can't even fix our own car without having to buy a new part cause someone says its dangerous to rebuilt or repair something, Man up and get your balls out of your wifes purse.
too funny..:)
sad but true.
we would not be roaming at all. if our forefathers had been wussies they would not have been survivors of the fittest. thank you forefathers for being strong.

Don't try this at home....you will die....My gas tank was repaired by a good ol boy mechanic who ran car exhaust through tank while soldering neck back on; he used this procedure his whole life...don't try this at home...you will die.
 
#42 ·
When asked how this is supposed to be safe the reasoning usually goes that the exhaust is already burned "dead air" and can not burn again but that reasoning is seriously flawed! Exhaust gas, even diesel, is nowhere near 100% burned during combustion in an internal combustion engine, if it was we would be getting a great deal more power and mileage that we do. I don't know the exact percentage of the fuel that is burned but it is actually less than 50% and under the right conditions that exhaust gas can most certainly be made to explode.The fumes coming out of that tail pipe are not all "dead gases" that have already been burned once and thus can not burn again as the urban legend would have some believe and they do indeed have enough unburned fuel to explode violently when mixed with air and concentrated under the proper conditions.

DON'T DO THIS IT CAN KILL YOU!
 
#43 · (Edited)
001mustang said:
too funny..:)
sad but true.
we would not be roaming at all. if our forefathers had been wussies they would not have been survivors of the fittest. thank you forefathers for being strong.

Don't try this at home....you will die....My gas tank was repaired by a good ol boy mechanic who ran car exhaust through tank while soldering neck back on; he used this procedure his whole life...don't try this at home...you will die.



And the fact I did see a man killed doing this is totally lost on you? This is no joking matter, it does and has happened and that doesn't mean anything to you?

Fellows this is REAL, getting burned to death is no joke what the hell is wrong with you?
 
#44 ·
001mustang said:
Don't try this at home....you will die....My gas tank was repaired by a good ol boy mechanic who ran car exhaust through tank while soldering neck back on; he used this procedure his whole life...don't try this at home...you will die.


I mentioned a fellow a few posts back in this thread that was a "good ol boy" mechanic for many years, I would give anything if you could talk to this guy after he did that on that Jeep gas tank! This fellow is kind of hard to look at with the scaring on his face and arms.

But you will joke about it? :rolleyes:
 
#46 ·
001mustang said:
only thing i know is my tank did not explode when he repaired it on that day.

i have too admit...i backed off when i watched him solder my tank.

i did mention not to try this at home.

don't complete the fire triangle...you will die.

The odds are nothing will happen if you play Russian roulette once.

I have said repeatedly it would not happen every time and that's the very reason some people think it is safe, they won't believe it until it's too late! That same thing is the reason a lot of people get hurt doing other things they have done many times before, just because it doesn't happen every time does not make it OK. I wish it was a 100% sure thing for the exhaust to explode, certainly not that I want it to happen to anyone it is just that if it was a certainty then no one would risk doing it in the first place!
 
#47 ·
Personally ...i hold my bumper when i pump gas to prevent static discharge..not likely i would ever try gas tank repair myself.

as a society..i have a concern in the back of my head that becoming spineless may lead to national decline overtime...thats why forefather statement struck a chord...hope not...back to happy thoughts...
 
#48 ·
Up until the 80s Carbon Tet (Carbon tetrachloride) although no longer available was the norm for for gasoline tank wash outs before welding. There are newer chemicals avilable that replace it, that I won't name. I myself have never heard of purging a fuel tank with exhaust gases to prepare for welding, I have repaired Diesel tanks with fuel in them many times.
I agree tank repair should be left to qualified tank welders.
 
#49 ·
jose.e.sierra said:
I was reading all the members experiences while welding on fuel tanks and I respect everyones experiences and I am sory about the fatalities and accidents mentioned. However my experience concerning the subject is very simple. I grew up in Puerto Rico and we were very poor. As the Island is sourounded by an ocean, salt is every where around you. Gas tanks ussually rust easy. So been poor we do not have a choice but to weld and patch our tanks. The way I weld without any fear!! is removing the sending unit and making sure the fill tube is open, fill it all the way to the top with water, aply an open flame through the sending unit hole. A very small noise indicates the little fumes left between the water and thevery top of the fuel tank just burned up. No danger at all and most of the times you do not even notice the noise.
At this time you can drain the water and weld all you want or cut it in pieces if you want to dispose it.

Like I said, this is my way of welding on tanks. I have been doing it for 45 years in the auto restoration bussiness without a single incident.
Go to a store that sells dry-ice buy a 2 to 5 pounds depending on size of tank. With tank drained of fuel, put the dry ice in it and wait till a white vapor trails out of the filler pipe. The tank is now full of CO2 and welding will not result in an explosion or fire.

Bogie
 
#50 ·
oldbogie said:
Go to a store that sells dry-ice buy a 2 to 5 pounds depending on size of tank. [With tank drained of fuel] , put the dry ice in it and wait till a white vapor trails out of the filler pipe. The tank is now full of CO2 and welding will not result in an explosion or fire.Bogie

Let me add a bit to that if I may, wash the tank out by rinsing with a couple of gallons of (liquid dish detergent) hot soapy water after draining and before adding the dry ice.
 
#51 ·
The price of a new or fabricated fuel tank is cheaper than the cost of a funeral. Why bother?

One thing I've found is after one leak is fixed however, another one always pop's up.

How's this for an add, for sale, 380 semi auto rullet pistol, 100 dollars, only fired once. :drunk:
 
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