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Topic Review (Newest First)
10-24-2012 12:45 AM
eastsidebuzz So I picked it up today. He still thinks I should use that phase adder but, after re-reading your explanations I tend to agree with you on getting a 5hp motor. Need to find one now.
01-01-2012 09:56 PM
eastsidebuzz
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldred
I didn't intend to be offensive I am just trying to make the point .
You did not. I was waiting for your response and it was an enlightening as always. You are a great source of knowledge and I am lucky to have found your info.

I am going to try and swap out the motor with a single phase 220 one.
01-01-2012 08:55 PM
oldred
Quote:
Originally Posted by eastsidebuzz
Oldred He said he had extra 5hp 220 motors and I will try and get one of those to use and not do the 3 phase adder thing. Might have to sell the 3 phase 5hp motor to fund a new motor.

Is that extra 220 motor three phase or is it a single phase? If it is single phase then you will have what you need but if it is three phase you would of course still need 220 volt three phase power. Also be aware of the motor RPM because if it is different than the motor on the compressor now you would have to deal with that too, you can use a different speed motor but you would have to change pulleys to make it work.
01-01-2012 08:46 PM
oldred I didn't intend to be offensive I am just trying to make the point that by the time you get a three phase conversion properly in place you will almost certainly have more in it than what the single phase motor would cost. Static Phase converters are great for things like lathes, saws, drills and other equipment that don't normally start under a heavy load but not only does a compressor usually have a high torque situation to start but it has to do so frequently which is far from ideal for using a phase converter. Static converters can be very handy when only one machine is to be run from it as long as the machine is an easy start situation but Rotary converters can be used for situations where multiple machines are to be run and for high load starts like compressors, not normally an economical option to run just one motor. Multiple motors can also be run from properly matched static converters but it can be a hassle since they have to be started in a set order if one motor pulls more power than the other.
01-01-2012 06:37 PM
eastsidebuzz
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldred
The bottom line is that just because it can be made to work, sort of, does not mean it's a good idea. The static converter simply will not work properly even if it seems to be at first and the rotary converter is a classic case of buying a $100 saddle for a $10 horse!
Oldred I have always appreciated your candour. He said he had extra 5hp 220 motors and I will try and get one of those to use and not do the 3 phase adder thing. Might have to sell the 3 phase 5hp motor to fund a new motor.
01-01-2012 04:03 PM
oldred
Quote:
Originally Posted by eastsidebuzz
Yes I agree. But, the easiest way to do this is to add in the inverter like he has done when he used it. I was just wondering if I would see 1.5 the amount of power used then just changing it over to a 220 or not.

I wonder if there is a continuing edu class that would help me understand all this power stuff. I can wire it but, don't really understand it.


I am not sure I am understanding exactly, an inverter does not figure in here because it converts DC to AC and has nothing to do with phase generation. Now if you are talking about a static phase converter, just a small box wired into the circuit with no large capacitors and an idler motor, then he could not have been getting more than 2/3 of the motor's rated power. Phase converters are a P@&& poor solution for running a three phase compressor from single phase power anyway, the frequent start cycles and high power demands (especially at start-up) just don't jibe with the way phase converters are meant to work, they are intended for infrequent starts and continuous running of equipment. The static converter, as already mentioned, will not allow anywhere near full power plus the frequent high load starts will usually make starting problematic and can lead to component failure. The rotary type will run a compressor just fine BUT it must be left running the entire time the compressor is on regardless if the compressor motor is running or not, the rotary converter MUST already be running when the compressor kicks on so in this case I guess a rotary converter would be wasting some power. The main draw-back to the rotary converter however is the fact it would probably cost more than twice as much as the proper single phase motor to replace the three phase.

The bottom line is that just because it can be made to work, sort of, does not mean it's a good idea. The static converter simply will not work properly even if it seems to be at first and the rotary converter is a classic case of buying a $100 saddle for a $10 horse!
01-01-2012 01:56 PM
eastsidebuzz
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldred
Trust me on this one, the simplest, most trouble free and usually the cheapest way to do this would be to switch to a single phase motor and forget about running that thing off a phase converter.
Yes I agree. But, the easiest way to do this is to add in the inverter like he has done when he used it. I was just wondering if I would see 1.5 the amount of power used then just changing it over to a 220 or not.

I wonder if there is a continuing edu class that would help me understand all this power stuff. I can wire it but, don't really understand it.
01-01-2012 06:24 AM
oldred
Quote:
Originally Posted by eastsidebuzz
So I guess my question is will the setup with the phase converter use an excessively more amount of power then a 220 would? So should I change out the 3 phase motor to a 220 to conserve power? I have read articles but, they dont really answer the question.

http://www.metalwebnews.com/howto/ph-conv/ph-conv.html
http://www.agweb.com/article/three-phase_alternatives/



You are confusing power phase with voltage, a phase converter does not change the voltage and three phase motors running on three phase 220 power are common, just because it may be a 220 volt motor does not mean it is single phase. If the motor is wired for something other than 220/240 (usually 440/480) and can't be changed then it won't work even with a phase converter but fortunately most motors are easily switched to the lower voltage. Once the motor is wired for the proper voltage (assuming it can be) then it can be run from the phase converter and a 220 volt single phase power source. A static phase converter will not use any more power and a rotary converter will only use a negligible amount of extra power, wasted power is not a concern either way.


Trust me on this one, the simplest, most trouble free and usually the cheapest way to do this would be to switch to a single phase motor and forget about running that thing off a phase converter.
12-31-2011 09:37 PM
eastsidebuzz
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldred
That's a phase converter not a phase "adder" and whether it will work or not depends on what type it is. A static phase converter is just a box that wires into the circuit and allows the motor to run but it will produce only 2/3 of it's rated power so your 3 HP motor becomes only 2 HP, these don't work well with compressor duty anyway. The rotary type converters use a large capacitor pack and another "idler" motor of equal or greater power rating and this type should work ok since they will allow full power and take the repeated start loads but as expensive as they are it's not likely he is going to throw in one of those for free, a static converter for a 3 HP motor costs about $100 to $150 while the rotary type is around $800 to $1000 plus there is a big demand for used ones. If he is indeed going to throw in a rotary type converter and it is in working order it would be worth far more than the compressor so that would be a good deal but if he is talking about the cheap static type converter it's not going to work.
So I guess my question is will the setup with the phase converter use an excessively more amount of power then a 220 would? So should I change out the 3 phase motor to a 220 to conserve power? I have read articles but, they dont really answer the question.

http://www.metalwebnews.com/howto/ph-conv/ph-conv.html
http://www.agweb.com/article/three-phase_alternatives/
12-31-2011 01:47 AM
eastsidebuzz
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rell
According to Harborfreights site at checkout estimated sales tax is $62.00
Sounds like a plan. I hate to give my gov any tax dollars if I can help it. So the drive is worth the stick it to her that I can do. She just @!$$3$ it away anyway.
12-30-2011 04:51 PM
Rell I live in northern Cali (central valley).

Taking a trip to Oregon is no problem. I have family there, southern Oregon mostly.

I no longer own a truck so I don't see how it would work, and renting something + gas to drive up there would cost me more then sales tax so yeah.

According to Harborfreights site at checkout estimated sales tax is $62.00

I have a Harborfreight down the street, can rent a Homedepot truck for $20 Shouldn't take any longer then an hour to rent the truck, pickup the compressor, drop it off at home real quick and return the truck to homedepot.
12-30-2011 02:20 PM
eastsidebuzz
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rell
I narrowed down to two options

I'm either going with this one
HF

Or wait to try and scrambling up the extra dough for this one

NT

EDIT- Also just got a 25% Super Coupon from HF in a email. Was excited to try and use it but I read the fine print and it says no Compressors
So that was the same struggle I had when I started this thread. 799 or 1299 is the tough one. I cant justify the extra 500 bucks. I would get the HF one and the warranty.

Now I live in WA and can drive to OR to get things so I would save the sales tax since NT ship's without sales tax and HF would have sales tax here in WA. Not sure what part of the state you live in but, that is 10% here in WA now and I think Cali is close behind. Is NV sales tax free? Could take a trip to Vegas.

LAS VEGAS NV #013 4740 S. DECATUR BLVD. LAS VEGAS, NV 89103
HENDERSON NV #179 3550 E. SUNSET RD, STE B LAS VEGAS, NV 89120

They just changed the 25% off coupons to disallow compressors 6 months ago. Maybe you could sweet talk an employee into buying it for you and using his or her employee discount, or make one of your kids get a job there.
12-29-2011 10:11 PM
eastsidebuzz
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rell
Anyone know what the details are on warranty for the U.S. General compressor from HF?? Would I have to deal with HF or the manufacture directly during any issues while warranty is valid??
So the way it works according to them is you bring the unit back with the paperwork and warranty piece and they give you a new one. That sounds pretty easy to me. Seems it is no big deal to the guys in the store.
12-29-2011 09:54 PM
Rell Anyone know what the details are on warranty for the U.S. General compressor from HF?? Would I have to deal with HF or the manufacture directly during any issues while warranty is valid??

I narrowed down to two options

I'm either going with this one

http://www.harborfreight.com/5-hp-60...html?hftref=cj

Or wait to try and scrambling up the extra dough for this one

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/too...0475_200350475

With Northerntool's warranty I assume I will have to deal with the manufacture if something happens, cause there aren't any Northern Tool stores in California.


Would love to just be able to get the Quincy no problem but the price of the U.S. General just seems so pleasing. Maybe with enough jobs of using the HF compressor I could get together some cash + sell the compressor and buy a Quincy And then hopefully never have to worry about a compressor ever again.

EDIT- Also just got a 25% Super Coupon from HF in a email. Was excited to try and use it but I read the fine print and it says no Compressors
12-29-2011 04:12 PM
eastsidebuzz
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldred
If he is indeed going to throw in a rotary type converter and it is in working order it would be worth far more than the compressor so that would be a good deal but if he is talking about the cheap static type converter it's not going to work.
So it is one that he said he paid over 300 for and will part with it for 100. He uses this exact combo when he is refinishing floors that is why he has the compressor. He says it works great on 220 but, most of the places he goes too now have the 3 phase already so he does not need it. I will get him to throw in a few 220 5hp motor to swap out if all else fails.
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