|04-16-2011 11:06 PM|
Metal prep is good stuff if used properly, epoxy is total insurance if applied over properly prepared and dried bare metal, why take any chances?? use both! Dp epoxies are awesome! we can't get them anymore in Canada which sucks,they are not voc compliant, hopefully they come out with a new one, they are the closest thing to waterproof as it gets, do it right and it will last!!
|04-16-2011 09:53 AM|
I dont trust ANY coating that I didnt put on myself....The first thing I do with aftermarket,steel parts is sand it off and use my own brand of epoxy...
I've had the same problems with bumpers that would lift as soon as the first coat of color was laid on.I immediately washed all the paint off with lacquer thinner and found that the primer also came off ,it looked like black lacquer primer to me......Now, the first thing I do is wash the covers with a good dose of thinner to see if the primer comes off then I'll apply a mold release agent then w&g and then epoxy (because its a flexible primer) it takes longer (an extra day) but it has to be done I cant afford a comeback on a customers car...
We also buy and sell a lot of cars ...(lot cars ,but nice lot cars),on those cars I dont bother with all that and just sand and paint over that crap primer...I've seen a lot of problems from lifting to peeling doing it this way ,but I also make a lot of money from customers that buy cars then come back a year later for some repairs..
Dont EVER trust a coating you didnt put on yourself. Thats the main reason I strip a car ,otherwise I cant guarantee the paint job...Who Knows Whats under There ??????
|04-16-2011 08:25 AM|
The company, I mentioned I was in with the ecoats was a higher end Jap company and I have no way of knowing if this is true but the engineer and I were discussing bumpers, as some of these bumpers going back 10 years ago would have a problem coating and then six months later all would be fine.
He told me that they would save their waste base colors and when they had enough ship it to a paint manufacturer and they would blend to together and tint and then use that for a coating on the bumpers.
Here again, I don't know if this is true but it costs me $250 a 55 gallon drum of waste to be hauled off, so with 10000's of gallons generated this would be a real money saver and with what he told me, I could do a 1000 gallons in about 30 minutes, so its no big labor cost.
A big paint company could easily do 10,000 gallons in 30 minutes.
Could be true or could be bull but does add up.
|04-16-2011 07:29 AM|
no idea why they feel the need to coat some of these new bumpers in the primer that they use.
give it to me raw so i know exactly whats going on it.
most of the bronco parts i've gotten for the bronco are all bare steel.....coated with oil but none the less bare steel so just clean, blast a little and epoxy. start fresh. would much rather have stuff this way than the black coatings on some of this stuff.
|04-16-2011 06:46 AM|
were i have my most problems is with bumpers.
i use mostly aftermarket covers and they are nightmares anymore.
never get the same results in a row
dont have any problems with the coatings on the Metal parts oem or aftermarket yet
|04-15-2011 08:58 PM|
|04-15-2011 07:17 PM|
One thing about this business is it changes overnight and I'm out of the loop the last few years with the OEMS.
Wiht pricing as critical as it is today for a business to survive it would never shock me what may start showing up on the cars themselves or replacement parts.
Most critical is the OEM replacement parts stay with the same coatings, minor problems were sprung on body shops when they started to change to waterborne instead of solvent as it is hard to tell the difference and some of the higher end shops had adhesion problems until the word got out that they were not dealing with the same coating as before.
A lot had to do with the system they were using and the process, so a slight change and process, took care of the problem.
Now there seems to be a rash of calls with some OEM parts lifting, no matter what you put over them, especially on new coated bumper.
So who knows what they are using on all the parts.
|04-15-2011 05:33 PM|
I just stopped using Lacquer for color work about 10-12 years ago.... but only because of the diminishing color formulas, and rapidly vanishing suppliers.
I'll probably start using epoxy primer in about 10-20 years.... but I haven't seen a reason yet. LOL! :-)~
|04-15-2011 05:09 PM|
I Used Ppg Industral Primer El-cheapo 100 For The Kit Straight Over Bare Metal Worked Great
|04-15-2011 04:45 PM|
|jeremyb||you know, barry knows what hes talking about from time to time. LOL|
|04-15-2011 03:46 PM|
I may have answered my own question. I found an article on "e coating" from a company called PCI.
E coat stands for the electrolosis process... not the type of paint. The process had been around since before epoxies. I think it was the thirties or forties.
It says that today they are using mostly epoxy or acrylic paints in the e coat process, depending on the climate and area that the products will be used.
Sounds like the car manufacturers use mostly epoxy.
|04-15-2011 02:44 PM|
Exactly, I was in a plant 2-4 years ago that made front cradles and other parts, they had the epoxy mil thickness set to .3 and did a salt spray test at 13% solution (33% is what I was taught??) every 200 or so parts, hoping to get in 250 hour range.
Pretty crappy and put that in the sun, won't last long.
They we looking for cheaper yet and asking about SS direct to metal.
|04-15-2011 02:31 PM|
|04-15-2011 02:05 PM|
|mitmaks||I think you guys have ecoat confused with epoxy. If epoxy is that good how come I see all these cars with rusted out replacement hoods/fenders that got never painted.|
|04-15-2011 11:21 AM|
Ecoat is epoxy, 80% now waterborne epoxy, the black coatings that come on replacement fenders etc.
procedure, dipped in acid tank and then, usually three neutralization tanks then dipped in epoxy tank and mils is decided by the amount of charge to the panel.
I should add some are sprayed, depending on plant and the part.
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