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Topic Review (Newest First)
06-24-2011 12:02 AM
techinspector1
Quote:
Originally Posted by against all odds
Are the blocks themselves able to withstand 800hp?
I'm not a professional engine builder, but in my opinion, around 800 would be the high limit for a production block for me. Over that and I think I'd be lookin' for an aftermarket block. Same with 550 on a small block.
06-23-2011 10:30 PM
lt1silverhawk
Quote:
Originally Posted by against all odds
i agree that reliability is way more important than big numbers. i guess i should have made it clearer; Are the blocks themselves able to withstand 800hp? Just the blocks not any of the rotating/reciprocating assembly. The blocks that you can find in 3/4, 1 ton trucks, medium dutys/school buses etc.?
Bumping this thread so hopefully someone can answer against all odds' question quoted above...
06-14-2011 06:38 PM
against all odds
Quote:
Originally Posted by cal1320
Late 70's and 80's big blocks were 2 bolt mains and cast cranks. Could they be built to make 800 hp? Sure. That's what NOS is for. However, this combo is meant to make power and last. Reliability is more important to me than HP anyday. Unless your a class racer for NHRA or IHRA there is no need to build the motor for kill.
Do you want to sit around and brag about the three times you ran 9.20's before the engine failed or do you want to run mid 11's and drive it for the next 5 to 6 years?
i agree that reliability is way more important than big numbers. i guess i should have made it clearer; Are the blocks themselves able to withstand 800hp? Just the blocks not any of the rotating/reciprocating assembly. The blocks that you can find in 3/4, 1 ton trucks, medium dutys/school buses etc.?
06-13-2011 07:45 PM
lt1silverhawk
Quote:
Originally Posted by my87Z
it was posted ealier on this thread about the tires, my car isn't tubed but i do have completly updated suspension and the rearend sits about 1" higher with the front end about 1" lower. but i am able to run p295/60R15's (m/t drag radials) and a 28x10 slick without any rubbing issues
Hmmm. Maybe mine isn't tubbed then. I'm gonna check and report back. Glad you mentioned it as someone else can use that info.




Quote:
Originally Posted by techinspector1
Thank you Sir!




Quote:
Originally Posted by against all odds
i guess my question in conjunction with the original question is, Do all big blocks, including the ones you can find "cheap" in the classifieds that came in 80's trucks/u-hauls and the like have very good blocks? i would define "good" as being able to take 800hp. And do they come with forged rotating assemblies----crank, rods, pistons?

If not, can we get a guide?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cal1320
Late 70's and 80's big blocks were 2 bolt mains and cast cranks. Could they be built to make 800 hp? Sure. That's what NOS is for. However, this combo is meant to make power and last. Reliability is more important to me than HP anyday. Unless your a class racer for NHRA or IHRA there is no need to build the motor for kill.
Do you want to sit around and brag about the three times you ran 9.20's before the engine failed or do you want to run mid 11's and drive it for the next 5 to 6 years?
Interesting info, thanks!
06-13-2011 01:54 PM
techinspector1
Quote:
Originally Posted by lt1silverhawk
I might possibly install a roll bar.
http://www.crankshaftcoalition.com/w...legal_Roll_Bar
06-13-2011 08:14 AM
cal1320 Late 70's and 80's big blocks were 2 bolt mains and cast cranks. Could they be built to make 800 hp? Sure. That's what NOS is for. However, this combo is meant to make power and last. Reliability is more important to me than HP anyday. Unless your a class racer for NHRA or IHRA there is no need to build the motor for kill.
Do you want to sit around and brag about the three times you ran 9.20's before the engine failed or do you want to run mid 11's and drive it for the next 5 to 6 years?
06-11-2011 09:43 AM
against all odds i guess my question in conjunction with the original question is, Do all big blocks, including the ones you can find "cheap" in the classifieds that came in 80's trucks/u-hauls and the like have very good blocks? i would define "good" as being able to take 800hp. And do they come with forged rotating assemblies----crank, rods, pistons?

If not, can we get a guide?
05-10-2011 01:11 PM
my87Z it was posted ealier on this thread about the tires, my car isn't tubed but i do have completly updated suspension and the rearend sits about 1" higher with the front end about 1" lower. but i am able to run p295/60R15's (m/t drag radials) and a 28x10 slick without any rubbing issues
05-10-2011 12:24 PM
lt1silverhawk So, I went online did, some price shopping and here's what I found:

- 454 long block (with/without the 049 or 781 heads): $500, +/- $250 on local Craigslist.

- 454 long block with matching TH400 transmission (with/without the 049 or 781 heads): $800 to $1500 on local Craigslist.

- 049 heads: $400 to $750 depending on condition, on local Craigslist.

- TH400 (from a reputable builder/company): $1250, +/- $150, plus shipping. IO figure this wouldn't be an ideal part to buy used. Perhaps building it myself would be better?

- 9" rear (various measurements, with drums): $350, +/- $100 on local Craigslist. Still need to measure the one on the Camaro.

This puts the damage at about $2500, before any machine work and other needed parts.

I imagine the heads may need to be inspected at the very least. Possibly rebuilt with new components. New gaskets. Camshaft. Carburetor. Intake manifold. Complete tune up. Maybe a fuel pump. The rear end would have to modified. Plus new gears and axles.

Am I missing anything?
05-06-2011 11:06 PM
lt1silverhawk
Quote:
Originally Posted by techinspector1
I understand what you want to do and will chip in with this. I disagree about using a TH350 behind a big block. Now, if you've spent money to beef it up, then it will work fine. But let me ask, did you ever see a TH350 behind a big block from the factory? I don't think so and there's a reason for that, because a big block will frag a stock 350. There are fellows who use beefed 350's at the drag strip, but it's because they're trying to find a couple of tenths due to the lighter rotating components as compared to a TH400.

Big block, TH400, 9" rear (measure a late 70's Bronco) for cheap, bulletproof fun. 049 or 781 heads from racing junk, ebay, craigslist, etc. Google "049 heads for sale".
Thanks for the simple and straight-forward recipe techninspector1! I'm gonna start pricing shopping on this stuff and report back.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Bowtie man
The only way I would consider a TH350 behind a BBC would be if it was built to handle it. Other than that it would be a TH400.
Based on all the feedback from you and the other members, TH400 it is.
05-06-2011 05:03 PM
Bowtie man The only way I would consider a TH350 behind a BBC would be if it was built to handle it. Other than that it would be a TH400.
05-06-2011 02:19 PM
techinspector1 I understand what you want to do and will chip in with this. I disagree about using a TH350 behind a big block. Now, if you've spent money to beef it up, then it will work fine. But let me ask, did you ever see a TH350 behind a big block from the factory? I don't think so and there's a reason for that, because a big block will frag a stock 350. There are fellows who use beefed 350's at the drag strip, but it's because they're trying to find a couple of tenths due to the lighter rotating components as compared to a TH400.

Big block, TH400, 9" rear (measure a late 70's Bronco) for cheap, bulletproof fun. 049 or 781 heads from racing junk, ebay, craigslist, etc. Google "049 heads for sale".
05-06-2011 12:02 PM
lt1silverhawk Hey my87Z,
Quote:
Originally Posted by my87Z
the 3rd gen 82-92 camaro's are roughly about 3350-3550, depending on what model and motor cam in the car, i have an 87' z28 that i have redone for street/strip that weighs just less than 3700lbs (with my 250lb butt in it) so that should give you a better idea of how much your car weighs, gutting the interior will net you about 200-300lbs
This one is an '84 Z28. I believe the T-Top models weight more due to extra reinforcement.




Quote:
Originally Posted by my87Z
the major issue with these cars (trust me i found out) is their 7.5 rearend, they aren't made to handle much of any power, you can put stronger axles, and a stronger carrier in them (i did) and you will still blow them with around 350-400tq. i didn't have my motor in my car 2 weeks when i hit about half throtle from a stop sign, with M/T drag radials and my ring gear cracked, which ended up causing all kinds of damage in side by the time i had the car off the road in a parking lot. after pulling the pan i had gear oil and metal soup in there. (of coarse my motor makes almost 500tq) but i learned my lesson and bought a complete 33 spline 12 bolt from moser (32-3300 to my door $$$)
Completely forgot about the dreaded rearend . I still need to check and see if it is the stock one (got the car a couple years and haven't touched it since). $3300 is way out of the price range for now. This may just send me back to drawing board.




------------------------------------------




Hey cal1320,
Quote:
Originally Posted by cal1320
My 781 heads were on a 454 from a 76 suburban.
That should get me started in the right direction.




Quote:
Originally Posted by cal1320
TH350 held up well also. The 7.5 axle has to go. You can take it out now or wait and break it on the first night out. I would still run the torque arm though. Build mounts off a 9'' or 12 bolt or Dana rear. Get the front mount off the trans.(You will only break trans mounts like this) and attach it to the trans x member. Dont screw up the pinion angle. BTW, for those with a more streetable car you can use the tailshaft from a vega to attach the torque arm to a TH350. They were torque arm also.
Good to have a recommendation on the TH-350. Thats two votes to ouster the 7.5" rearend. Thats good info on the mounts and torque arm. Glad you brought 'em up.




Quote:
Originally Posted by cal1320
Not a lot of room for tires in stock wheel wells. 275/60 DOT or 26 x10 slicks.
I don't remeber the tire size on the slicks on hand. I don't think the car is tubed.



Quote:
Originally Posted by cal1320
3.89 gear is decent.
4.11 would be ideal?




Not to go completely off-topic with this post, but, and I know what I'm about to bring up is nothing more than a temporary fix, at least behind the 454, how about a 4th gen rearend swap? I do have a rearend from a '95 Firebird, an Eaton posi, 4.10 gears and Strange axles. With some minor strength fixes, I imagine this setup would be fine behind a mild 350 with a TH350 setup, if not a big block. Any thoughts?
05-06-2011 10:52 AM
cal1320 My 781 heads were on a 454 from a 76 suburban. TH350 held up well also. The 7.5 axle has to go. You can take it out now or wait and break it on the first night out. I would still run the torque arm though. Build mounts off a 9'' or 12 bolt or Dana rear. Get the front mount off the trans.(You will only break trans mounts like this) and attach it to the trans x member. Dont screw up the pinion angle. BTW, for those with a more streetable car you can use the tailshaft from a vega to attach the torque arm to a TH350. They were torque arm also.
Not a lot of room for tires in stock wheel wells. 275/60 DOT or 26 x10 slicks.
3.89 gear is decent.
05-06-2011 10:29 AM
my87Z the 3rd gen 82-92 camaro's are roughly about 3350-3550, depending on what model and motor cam in the car, i have an 87' z28 that i have redone for street/strip that weighs just less than 3700lbs (with my 250lb butt in it) so that should give you a better idea of how much your car weighs, gutting the interior will net you about 200-300lbs

the major issue with these cars (trust me i found out) is their 7.5 rearend, they aren't made to handle much of any power, you can put stronger axles, and a stronger carrier in them (i did) and you will still blow them with around 350-400tq. i didn't have my motor in my car 2 weeks when i hit about half throtle from a stop sign, with M/T drag radials and my ring gear cracked, which ended up causing all kinds of damage in side by the time i had the car off the road in a parking lot. after pulling the pan i had gear oil and metal soup in there. (of coarse my motor makes almost 500tq) but i learned my lesson and bought a complete 33 spline 12 bolt from moser (32-3300 to my door $$$)
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