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Topic Review (Newest First)
06-05-2011 12:48 PM
cobalt327
Quote:
Originally Posted by CJ_1080
I am pretty positive I got them all on the pistons right!
See what the result of not filling the pan quite so high has. But as far as the "upside down second ring goes, it only takes ONE ring on ONE piston to screw the pooch on oil consumption.

An aftermarket longer dip stick could be used, or just a longer dip stick from where ever. Mark the stick as you fill the pan w/the levels when you have 3 quarts in, then 4, etc. Many vans had sticks like 4' long, Find what you need in the junk yard, unless you need it to be billet or chrome.
06-05-2011 12:28 PM
cobalt327
Quote:
Originally Posted by CJ_1080
I looked them up again on www.summitracing.com and summit has the rings listed as standard tension. Is this a mis-print? I was hoping they were standard tension.

Edit: the part number for the rings are; HRC 486040005
There's no way to say a ring will have "X" tension because it is "Z" width.

The width of your rings has very little to do w/what the tension is. It DOES have to do w/how much friction they create. Instead it is the radial thickness (i.e. "front to back") that has a much larger effect on the tension potential of the ring, along w/the actual ring type/design.

No need to believe ME, either- do a search for yourself and see what the real world says on the subject. Perhaps one of the machinists here could lend a hand on this.
06-05-2011 11:58 AM
old cars Are the rings chrome if so drain the rad. and start the motor and let it run till it gets hot and I mean hot then let it cool off on its own that sould do it
06-05-2011 11:29 AM
MouseFink
Oil ring tension

Most ring sets have standard tension OIL rings as you saw in the Summit specificatons. However, the 1/16" top and 1/16" second rings are low tension rings for racing and do not have as good oil control as standard tension rings. Radial pressure of standard tension rings are 180 - 240 PSI and low tension rings are 90 - 160 PSI.

Comparing the thin modern metric rings is like comparing apples to oranges. Those rings are designed for reduced emissions and fuel economy. They have a smaller radial thickness than the old school rings and have better conformability to cylinder wall irregularities.
06-05-2011 11:14 AM
CJ_1080 I looked them up again on www.summitracing.com and summit has the rings listed as standard tension. Is this a mis-print? I was hoping they were standard tension.

Edit: the part number for the rings are; HRC 486040005
06-05-2011 10:35 AM
MouseFink
thin rings on the street?

Your 1/16", 1/16", 3/16" rings are LOW tension rings. That is why those pistons should not be used on the street. Low silicon forged pistons that use thin low tension rings are for racing only. Keeping the cylinder walls free of oil by dropping the oil level in a high capacity oil pan will help prevent excessive oil consumption when using low tension rings on a race engine.
06-05-2011 10:01 AM
2old2fast C J I sent you a pm

dave
06-05-2011 09:30 AM
CJ_1080 I bought a oil pan pump and pickup as an oiling kit from summit. The pan was a baffled and had a trap door. The pump and pickup were allready mated and had a bracket to retain the pickup to the pump. The pickup measured right about 3/8 odd the bottom of the pan. I also reused the factory windage tray. It had to be clearances with a ball peek hammer to clear a couple rod sets. Hopefully just filling with less oil and getting the oil level away from the rotating assembly will fix it!

Do I need an aftermarket dipstick? Another thing I never considered when lengthening the rotating assembly and aftermarket oil pan.
06-04-2011 11:20 PM
cobalt327
Quote:
Originally Posted by CJ_1080
I guess that may be it...I've been filling it up to the mark on the factory dipstick. Maybe I will try to put less in there. That would be easier to try first, than to pull it all apart to check the rings. I am pretty positive I got them all on the pistons right! Not to diminish anyone's suggestions, you have all been a big help.

Someone told me I couldn't run my pistons on the street, due to the pin intersecting the oil control rings. Is there any truth to this? But that same person also said 1/16 1/16 3/16 rings are race only and wont work on the street. If that is so how does the factory vortec engines with their smaller rings go 300,000 plus miles?

Maybe I will give her an oil change early and see what happens! I will definately let you know of the outcome!

I am still open to suggestions, just want to try some simpler things first!
Pistons that have their pins intersect the oil ring generally use a support rail for the scraper to ride on.

If you want to try lowering the oil level first (I would, too), just drain whatever amount out that is in excess of 4 quarts, i.e. leave 4 quarts in the pan plus what's in the filter and that's plenty to see if it makes a difference.

To do this, the oil pick up needs to be the correct height off the floor of the oil pan- about 3/8". Hopefully you bought the matching PU for the pan you bought. That way it'll be correct.

Good luck.
06-04-2011 07:48 PM
CJ_1080 I guess that may be it...I've been filling it up to the mark on the factory dipstick. Maybe I will try to put less in there. That would be easier to try first, than to pull it all apart to check the rings. I am pretty positive I got them all on the pistons right! Not to diminish anyone's suggestions, you have all been a big help.

Someone told me I couldn't run my pistons on the street, due to the pin intersecting the oil control rings. Is there any truth to this? But that same person also said 1/16 1/16 3/16 rings are race only and wont work on the street. If that is so how does the factory vortec engines with their smaller rings go 300,000 plus miles?

Maybe I will give her an oil change early and see what happens! I will definately let you know of the outcome!

I am still open to suggestions, just want to try some simpler things first!
06-04-2011 06:48 PM
cobalt327
Quote:
Originally Posted by CJ_1080
OK guys I was thinking a bout this....I am using a Moroso 7 quart oil pan, a standard volume pump with a 70 psi spring. I am using the factory dipstick. With a longer rotating assembly could the crank be dipping into the oil and coating the walls to much? I don't know if this would cause an overabundance of oil that can't be scraped off? I don't know, just spitballing here!
The idea of a deep oil pan is to lower the oil away from the rotator, not to add extra oil. Too high oil levels can cause excessive windage and can overwhelm the oil control ring's ability to remove the excess oil from the cylinder walls.
06-04-2011 06:40 PM
cobalt327 Second compression ring(s) installed upside down.
06-04-2011 04:44 PM
CJ_1080 OK guys I was thinking a bout this....I am using a Moroso 7 quart oil pan, a standard volume pump with a 70 psi spring. I am using the factory dipstick. With a longer rotating assembly could the crank be dipping into the oil and coating the walls to much? I don't know if this would cause an overabundance of oil that can't be scraped off? I don't know, just spitballing here!
06-04-2011 03:34 PM
engineczar Take a peek at the valve seals again. Is it possible that the clearance between the seal and retainer was not enough for the cam you're running and they've been damaged.
06-04-2011 03:21 PM
CJ_1080 OK guys thanks for the responses, this is why I love this place!! I'm going to try to answer all the questions.

The piston to wall clearance is. 004. The ring gaps were 1st ring. 018, 2nd ring was .020. The oil ring expanders weren't overlapped. They were spaced out according to SRP's instructions. The oil support ring was installed correctly as well. The machine shop honed the block with a deck plate but I am unsure of the hone grit. The rings were standard tension.

I am using the factory vortec injection with the factory pcv system. The valve covers are also baffled, they are factory.

The gaskets are felpro problem solver gaskets, the steel shim with the rubber seal overlay, installed dry. All the gaskets I used were felpro except the Mr. Gasket head gaskets.

I did a leakdown and a compression test. The compression test (sort of useless here) was within 6psi of eachother. The leakdown test showed less than 10% leakdown. My leakdown gauge reads 0-100% by 10% in increments. Runs good and idles smooth. I don't think its cause of a vacuum leak cause it wouldn't run as smooth as it does, right?

This one has me stumped! Any other ideas or info needed?
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