Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board - Reply to Topic -- Hot Rod Forum

Register FAQ Search Today's Posts Unanswered Posts Auto Escrow Insurance Auto Loans
Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board > General Discussion> Hot Rod Art> Artist depicts sedan/delivery
User Name
lost password?   |   register now

Thread: Artist depicts sedan/delivery Reply to Thread
Send Trackbacks to (Separate multiple URLs with spaces) :

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name (usually not your first and last name), your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:
Please select your insurance company (Optional)


Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.

Additional Options
Miscellaneous Options

Topic Review (Newest First)
06-24-2011 02:39 PM
Originally Posted by Vette59
cboy I see that the comment you left on the redbubble site to view the complete build on this site has been removed.
I checked it out and there is no word from redbubble on why they dumped my comment (which was highly supportive of the rendering and linked to my journal to show folks how the car was built). Interestingly, I DID get a nice note from the artist in response to my now deleted comment.

Strange site they have over there.
06-24-2011 01:57 PM
Originally Posted by Vette59
cboy I see that the comment you left on the redbubble site to view the complete build on this site has been removed.
Well THAT'S interesting. Thanks for the heads-up. I'll check it out. Maybe they have a rule against including links in their comments section.
06-24-2011 12:49 PM
Vette59 cboy I see that the comment you left on the redbubble site to view the complete build on this site has been removed.
06-24-2011 12:32 PM
Only Racing Thanks for the support guys, I have quite a few connections or avenues I can take but am proceeding cautiously. I would like to shoot an NHRA event ie top fuel, and have all my insurance and same gear as others, just never felt they had the interest in sending me. I'd rather trade for my NHRA shooters permit, lol. As for Drag Illustrated, It's considered that media has to be provided by NHRA or an event photographer, they cannot fill in with images, it could be the wrong one. Both IMO are responsible.

I find that they did have a photographer at the event, but maybe when you see the shot you would understand Why they didn't use it. Rule Number One, Try to stay away from shots with empty stands.

See the attached image
06-24-2011 08:24 AM
cboy After a bit more research there is a distinct possibility that this is not NHRA's crime, but rather Drag Illustrated's. It appears NHRA Communications issued this story in TEXT form only --- no pictures. But then the publication, Drag Illustrated, tried to liven up that press release by attaching a photo or two to the article. And in this case they apparently grabbed a shot from Only Racing's web site, doctored it up to remove the copyright, and then published it. Thus...they ended up with wrong car...wrong track...wrong event. And a copyright infringement on top of it all.

I'm sure Only Racing will continue to follow up with his own research, but so far this is what I think happened.
06-24-2011 07:23 AM
cboy This really takes the cake. Here is the copyright section at NHRA Communications.

And the irony NHRA's own words...

(ii) the content of the images may not be modified, and (iii) copyright, trademark and other proprietary notices may not be removed.
06-24-2011 07:13 AM
Originally Posted by Only Racing
...Here's a good example of how someone as big as NHRA can simply take an image and alter it. Not only did they remove my copyright but they are also "misrepresenting and NHRA Event"...
Whatever respect I still had for NHRA has now totally evaporated. That is just out and out larceny. With a simple email they could have contacted you to request permission to use your photo. But instead they chose to purposely obliterate your copyright notation and claim the photo as their own. And THEY would be the first ones to scream bloody murder if someone were to use NHRA copyrighted material.

I do hope you pursue this. Perhaps we can get some HR.Com members to start flooding NHRA with email complaints in your support. I just wonder how many other artists/photographers they do this to.
06-24-2011 05:59 AM
Only Racing Here's the skinny on the most basic of copyrifght laws in laymans terms.

1, there is intellectual property for the main which may seem to imply that because you thought it up it's yours. In a way it's true. Say you design a car and "Hot Wheels" makes one, you have the original stuff to prove that it was your design or idea, you have them big time. You go to patent an idea and someone beats you to it, you not only have the copyright of the idea but you applied for the patent and it's exactly the same, you have them also, this is mainly business at its worst.

For Images: If you drew an image, took the image, made the image and so on, then someone uses it by removing the copyright or modifying the image without your consent, it's infringement in the simplest form. If I add to one of my illustrations I cannot sell it without properly giving Jon his cut or share since I'm adding to the image and using Hotrodders as a part of it, even if it's only text and not his logo. That is fair practice and I would use his websites good name to possibly enhance it's overall appeal.

If it winds up to be ficticious like Deweys Surf Shop but there possibly is one somewhere for real at the time of the artwork, then it's trouble too.

Any image posted on the net is your property and governed by any copyright law even if you don't physically put a copyright on it. I implore anyone though to add something to an image, signature, or text / logo just for piece of mind.

Jon and Hotrodders is using his space to allow you to upload images to his gallery or your album, just as anyone with a photosharing place does. They can use an image simply becasue of the way a gallery is made to say highlight a gallery or someones album, this doesn't mean anything has been done wrong. If it wound up making him money it's simply luck only and the nature of the gallery / album is a side interest of the way it was portrayed on the net.

Here's a good example of how someone as big as NHRA can simply take an image and alter it. Not only did they remove my copyright but they are also "misrepresenting and NHRA Event" The image below is from this months Drag Illustrated, Notice the "Published by NHRA Communications" to which I'm not a part of. Second, Notice the area's marked off where the copyright has been covered over by the upper part of the track, simply cloning the above part The Red Box is where my copyright was. 3rd and which I feel is the worst part is actually "misrepresenting the actual NHRA Unleashed Event" buy using an image from a highly popular event called the Shakedown At E Town, This is a race at Englishtown NJ not South Georgia Motorsports Park. I have done articles and flyers for races, which it's intent was to depict a race, it's also my uderstanding that if I "Misrepresent a race" by using an image from another event that may make the one being shown more "appealing" then I am liable for that misrepresentation.

See the Two Images Below

Don't know how I'll pursue this but I will.
06-23-2011 01:03 PM
Originally Posted by 66SSImp454
What about infringment on your business name?
Hypothetically, that might be a valid point...for some rodder who had a real business. But "Buster's Surf Shop", in Lac du Flambeau, Wisconsin, is just a whimsical fabrication. We are 1,000 miles from anything resembling real surf. And Buster is my dog...shown below driving my roadster in the sedan's graphic.

And I say "hypothetically" because I'm ecstatic this artist has used my creation as the basis for his own creation. And even if I did happen to be in the REAL surf shop business I'd be even more ecstatic because of the potential free publicity this artist might create.

Others may take a different view of things. But that's mine.

06-23-2011 12:08 PM
66SSImp454 What about infringment on your business name?
06-23-2011 09:25 AM
Originally Posted by OLNOLAN
Dewey, I just wanted to make sure you did not take my comment in a negative fashion.
Not at all Nolan. I took your post as looking out for my best interests.

And I'm with you. Copyright law fries my brain. It is very very complicated. And has been made 10 times more complicated by the proliferation of photos, music and images on the web.

Regarding the watermarking of photos uploaded to Hotrodders.Com, I believe Jon does that to protect each of us who has uploaded pictures. In effect, it is a warning to anyone who attempts to use or replicate any of our photos that these images belong to the original poster and they are not to be used for other purposes.

I also believe it is Jon's position that the rights to all photos here on HR.Com belong to the original poster and that they can not be used for any other commercial purpose without the consent of the poster/photographer. Obviously, enforcing that protection is an entirely different matter. And most of us post with the full knowledge that our photos are liable to end up just about anywhere on the web.

As Only Racing has pointed out, anyone can take a photo or do a sketch of one of our hot rods while it is parked on the street or at a show. That is totally within their rights and that photo/image becomes THEIR intellectual property.

On the other hand, my car is MY intellectual property in that Streetbeast could not produce an exact fiberglass replica of the car without my authorization. By the same token, Revelle would have to have authorization to produce a "model" of this exact car.

Like I said. It gets quite complicated.
06-23-2011 07:53 AM

Originally Posted by cboy
Kind of you to note your concerns Nolan.

Other than the initial shock of discovering this on the internet, I have no problem with what the artist is doing here and I'm fairly certain he is totally within his rights under copyright law and the rules governing "intellectual property".

As long as he is taking his own photos or making his own renderings, he does not have to get permission from the "owner" of the original item he is photographing or sketching. This is why you see new "test cars" out on the track with disguises over the body panels. The photographer has every right to snap and publish (sell) any picture he can get of the car, even thought the car and the design are the property of the manufacturer.

Strangely enough, however, if I was to make a copy of the "Buster" rendering and put it up for sale next to my car at a car show...then I would be violating this artist's copyright protections and he could come after me for a portion of the proceeds. Go figure.

Sure, it might have been nice for him to provide a "courtesy" notification of some sort, but I'm sure he takes hundreds and hundreds of pictures which would become a file clerks nightmare to try to keep records of for notification purposes. So I just consider it an honor of sorts and if he sells a print or two...more power to him. I'd be proud to have my heap hanging on some stranger's wall.
Dewey, I just wanted to make sure you did not take my comment in a negative fashion. There was no intent to rain on your parade. I think that scratch built hotrods are works of art, with you having the eye of a true artist. I've told you this before. I have wondered about this "copyright" issue before in regard to "art". My daughter for instance, watermarks any photo she posts on a internet site because she considers it "her art". Could you for instance have a copyright on your car as a work of art?

So, not really wanting to stick out like a turd in the punchbowl, I think that I have seen photos posted on later become watermarked with "". Which brings up the question, does any photo posted on this website become Jon's intellectual property, where is, he could later sell somewhere else? I just have a curious mind and a weak understanding of copyright laws, etc.

With that said, seems like the guy could at least send you some free prints to give to your family and friends. Or, maybe my way of thinking is flawed. If I had the talent to build a hotrod from scratch, I would be pissed to see someone making money off of my blood, sweat and tears. Then on the other hand, if you ever decided to sell it, I guess the publicity helps.

Again, congratulations on having your art noticed enough to get on TV and having other artist doing depictions of it. Nolan
06-22-2011 07:07 PM
Only Racing Woop's my bad, I mistyped HDR in the first sentence. HDR is merely when done right multiple exposures in RAW format "RAW" is basically a negative type image from a digital camera so it can be manipulated for obvious reasons like wrong exposure and tint maybe too warm or cool ior possibly needs extreme sharpening.

Guys found that blending or integrating many "Bracketed" images could result in a dreamy of more artistic image. Again I like the darker versions myself over the really bright ones.

Bracketing is available on many camera's even point and shoots. You set the amount of images you want to bracket, the higher end camera's will do more than 12 exposures of one shot. Using shutter speeds to go from extremely under exposed to the right exposure then to the most over exposed. You may find it in your owners manual for point and shoot camera's. A pro body has it pretty much laid out with it's own area on the dial.

Now you have 12 full resloution images, your camera may say it's 15 megapixels but in reality that is only for shooting RAW, standard JPG's are half the full resolution, so it's more like an 8 megapixel due to JPG compression.

Now, what to do with those images, but lets cut it down to three exposures which is normal for most 1: UNDER EXPOSED, 2: PERFECT, 3: OVER EXPOSED

Bring them into any program that accepts a RAW or DNG depending on camera manufacturer and you now are looking at the highest resolution image you can take with your camera. In photoshop it has tools to "develop" these images, othe programs like Lightroom are much cheaper and do the same thing. Now you need a program to create the HDR, Akvis, and Photomatrix come to mind, cheap and efficient IMO. good results too. It will merge them together with you choosing the best possible highlight and tone to the image. The three or up to 12 exposures gives you a wide range of light or shadow to get an expression from an image.

Once merged it can be saved as either a photshop document or a standard JPG. Once saved you still have the RAW files untouched. What you can do afterwards is extend that by layering the same image and switching blending modes to create even cooler looks to the photo.

There are programs that will do this to a standard JPG file but results are nowhere near as clean, look up on shot HDR jpg. It is fun to play with.

As for the Facebook part of that, yes, it is cached and they own it, FB never removes anything, the little smart guy is as good as anyone from MIT, so he knew it all starting out.
06-22-2011 02:17 PM
NEW INTERIORS Look's great cboy..

Look's like anyone can make money off anything we do today...
06-22-2011 11:46 AM
Originally Posted by Only Racing
...It's definately HHR...
What's the difference between HHR and HDR?

Also, interesting comment regarding Facebook and copyright. What happens if someone uploads a picture they shot, then realizes their error, and deletes the photo. Can Facebook still claim they own the rights based on their cashe of the pic?
This thread has more than 15 replies. Click here to review the whole thread.

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:37 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 1999 - 2012. All Rights Reserved.