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Topic Review (Newest First)
09-08-2011 05:17 PM
Elevinpointsixtoone Since there seems to be no "rule of thumb" no pun intended and I do have 210 amp 230 volt MIG I might as well pick up a roll of .035 and see how it runs. So far, my .030 tests look good up to eight inch while the 5/16" had a lot of weld bead fully wetted out on top but maybe only 50% penetration. I got good results on the 8th by turning the wire feed down from the recommended setting and welding slower. In fact, I started burning holes through the base material....so...I'm just now finding this machines sweet spot. I will grab a spool of .035 and see where that takes me.
Dave
09-07-2011 05:32 PM
oldred
Quote:
Originally Posted by gow589
What I see is a lot of people who weld professionally say you cannot weld thick metal with a 110v welder; I say they never had to.



I have welded professionally from 1968 until I retired a few years ago and when I hear someone, especially a pro, say that a 110 welder can't be used on thick metal the first thing I think is "that's BS"! While there may be limits from a practical standpoint due to duty cycle, time spent doing the job, etc there really is no limit to how heavy a section that can be welded with .024 wire and a 110 machine. The trick is pre-heat! With small wire and low AMPs there can be serious problems when starting the weld on a heavy section because the thick metal will sink off the heat too fast and cause chilling of the bead leading to under-bead cracking from thermal shock, poor penatration and a brittle weld. That's where the mistaken belief these machines can't be used for heavier metal comes from but this is very simple to avoid. Just heat the area to around 400 deg or so, just too hot to touch with your bare hand, and then there is no problem. The inherent heat from the weld will eventually raise the temperature if no pre-heat is used but a lot of damage could occur before the metal becomes hot enough, the pre-heat will prevent this. An Oxy/Acetylene torch is useful for pre-heat but unless the part is really large even a small Propane torch is all that is necessary, 400 to 450 deg is plenty for starting the weld and that's a long way from red hot so those little torches are usually enough. In any case the pre-heating makes a world of difference when using low AMPs and small wire.
09-07-2011 04:54 PM
gow589
Quote:
Originally Posted by NEW INTERIORS
Just keep in mind,, The bigger the wire, The hotter you need to run the machine..The smaller the wire, The lower you can run the machine...

The smaller wire is good on panel work... You can keep the heat down and still get penetration..

You shouldn't need no more then 0.30...

I only use 0.23 and 0.30 ...The 0.23 can weld the thicker metal also... Like someone said... It has a lot to do with the guy holding the gun.... And for the thicker metal's,, Always bevel grind both sides... So you can get 100% weld..

I would agree. I think hobbyist like myself don't always work with the best tools so we learn to do with what we have. What I see is a lot of people who weld professionally say you cannot weld thick metal with a 110v welder; I say they never had to.

I learned with my Hobart 110v welder...which is pretty bottom of the barrel welder, that it does not weld ....ANYTHING as good with .030 wire as it does with .024 wire. But it does do an outstanding job with .024 wire.

The point being the 110v welder does not handle .030 wire as well. I can not speak for a larger welder but I have learned to do some prety large jobs with the smaller wire.

The part that is missed is with larger wire, the weld is much quicker. With smaller wire the weld takes longer and the added heat makes up for the inadequacies of the wire; providing there is a good bevel and you are laying down a good amount of weld.

What I found is, with good bevels, taking time to lay down good rows of weld, smaller wire can be quite good.

Here is a set of blades which went to a mush hog on a very large tractor. My tractor is 54hp and the tractor which used these is 2x the size. Blades are 1/2" thick and they were used to clear several acres including the mowing down of 100's of locust trees. Notice the heat distortion. The area welded (not just the weld) was cherry red when I set the gun down:



This is a 1/2" thick tab on a very large water table. I had to torch it off for transport and weld it back on during set up. The tab was used to lift the table which is heavy enough to make a 5000lb fork truck light on it's wheels.



My neighbor pulled out a plow with no attachment bar. We welded on a 1" thick plow bar to the top; no mechanical advantage just weld. He plowed a couple acres in the back yard to feed the deer corn.
09-07-2011 04:44 PM
NEW INTERIORS My measuring system that is always with me is a dollar bill... 6'' long.. 3'' folded in half.... It will Help you out when your some where's and you don't have a tape measure with you...
09-07-2011 01:56 PM
deadbodyman .....Give us an inch.........
09-07-2011 01:53 PM
oldred I think maybe we are about to get into trouble.
09-07-2011 01:50 PM
deadbodyman It was the Egyptians that developed the first standardized measureing system.When they started building the pyramids they needed help from all over and everyone had a different way of measuring,like with a string with equally spaced knots but no one spaced them the same way until they all had too work together and get the same measure...
09-07-2011 01:28 PM
oldred And then there's "Grog" which was the way they preserved their drinking water, the barrels of fresh water (on which their very lives depended) would have an amount of RUM added so it would not stagnate in the barrel, this mixture was called "Grog" and if you drank too much you became "Groggy"!
09-07-2011 11:46 AM
deadbodyman Caught me Bob....heres another tid bit of info...the term shiver me timbers ....A shive is an old term for shim....as the wood expanded and contracted they needed to be shimmed...Now were really off topic...
09-07-2011 09:42 AM
35terraplane
mig welding

Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Fool
I was told by my grandfather that the rule of thumb was an approximate measurement of 1", and a "foot" was 12". (male adult). the thumb measurement is taken from the tip of the thumb to its first knuckle.

He told me that back in the days of wooden ship repairs at sea many times there was no ruler. Since most men had their thumbs and feet they could facilitate repairs with a common measuring tool! ie." Hey Frank - cut a foot and 3 thumbs off the end of that timber"

Whether or not that is the true origin, it sounds reasonable to me.
And your thumb is the same length as your nose.

Bob

You guys can take your thumb away from your nose now.
09-07-2011 07:49 AM
Old Fool
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldred
As a "rule of thumb" (wonder where that old saying comes from? ) use the largest electrode or wire practical for the task at hand, notice I did not say the largest possible! There is a big difference between the largest wire possible for a weld and what works the best, so what works the best for a given size metal? That's kind of like asking "how long is a piece of rope"? Many factors determine what will be the best choice for a certain job but generally the largest wire or rod practical, that is the size that works comfortably and produces a sound weld, will be faster and cheaper with no loss of weld quality. The bottom line is if your welder can handle the AMPs and .035 does not burn through or otherwise damage the base metal then it may be a better choice-or not. Experiment and see how it works for you.
I was told by my grandfather that the rule of thumb was an approximate measurement of 1", and a "foot" was 12". (male adult). the thumb measurement is taken from the tip of the thumb to its first knuckle.

He told me that back in the days of wooden ship repairs at sea many times there was no ruler. Since most men had their thumbs and feet they could facilitate repairs with a common measuring tool! ie." Hey Frank - cut a foot and 3 thumbs off the end of that timber"

Whether or not that is the true origin, it sounds reasonable to me.
09-07-2011 07:40 AM
Old Fool .023 & .035
09-07-2011 05:15 AM
deadbodyman You need both sizes... welding sheet metal with .023 works best but its a waste using it for the thick stuff, that is if you can get the heat and wire speed high enough for it to weld right.
09-07-2011 12:05 AM
327NUT I use Lincoln L-56, you can get a 2lb. spool at Home Depot for about $12.
09-06-2011 07:50 PM
NEW INTERIORS Just keep in mind,, The bigger the wire, The hotter you need to run the machine..The smaller the wire, The lower you can run the machine...

The smaller wire is good on panel work... You can keep the heat down and still get penetration..

You shouldn't need no more then 0.30...

I only use 0.23 and 0.30 ...The 0.23 can weld the thicker metal also... Like someone said... It has a lot to do with the guy holding the gun.... And for the thicker metal's,, Always bevel grind both sides... So you can get 100% weld..
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