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Topic Review (Newest First)
09-30-2011 01:26 PM
ap72
Quote:
Originally Posted by spinn
Is sinking the spring seat the good way?
Your spring seat remains unchanged, unless you want to sink it slightly. You only cut the guide in height and in OD to prevent retainer to seal clearance, AND allow the use of .530 valve seals, which come in MANY varieties for dirt cheap.
09-30-2011 01:01 PM
spinn Run hard, whats that. It is drivin . The vehicle takes my scooters out by my brothers' kids for a blast. That is about 100 miles round trip. It does burnouts and the wide open downshifts that kick nice. Using a phone device with GPS an app for testng performance, claimed sub 16 quarter at 88 mph. To take it to a track is big money, and all the test and tune days are gone. Byron, Rt 66 ,and great lakes are busy, and have no time for my messing around. For the admit you might get 2-3 runs. This has been together many months.

The keeper/locks are stock from the vortec 906 heads. If someone works at a yard or parts depot, measure the v6 series 2 valves, that will tell if it is really 8mm or 11/32 .

GM advertised spring rate of 330-365lb/in depending on the .

Is sinking the spring seat the good way?

Did not mean to steal the thread.
09-30-2011 12:58 PM
ap72
Quote:
Originally Posted by cobalt327
This would be a 360 lb/in rate.

This is very close to the Comp Cams spring p/n 26981. Seat 110# @1.7", open 292# @ 1.175 (0.525").

My question is why would GM this spring on the 3100? Maybe it's because of the redline of this engine. Or a tall installed height... Anyone know what the installed height is on the 3100? Or the redline? I know the redline of the '09 Impala 3.5L is 6400 and will rev higher.
I'm pretty sure its 1.800".
09-30-2011 12:49 PM
cobalt327
Quote:
Originally Posted by spinn
Installed at 1.8 they were about 95lb seat and open 275 at .500
Installed at 1.6 it was 125 and 305
This would be a 360 lb/in rate.

This is very close to the Comp Cams spring p/n 26981. Seat 110# @1.7", open 292# @ 1.175 (0.525").

My question is why would GM this spring on the 3100? Maybe it's because of the redline of this engine. Or a tall installed height... Anyone know what the installed height is on the 3100? Or the redline? I know the redline of the '09 Impala 3.5L is 6400 and will rev higher.
09-30-2011 11:55 AM
ap72
Quote:
Originally Posted by spinn
Summit makes a number of headers, coatings , etc. Clearing up, that these are the basic $89 buck headers for a 85 gm truck.

The inside retainer dia must be the same from votx retainer to v6 retainer, or work with the v6 locks. There might be an extra retainer somewhere, if found the measurements will be posted. The seal part number is not on the reciept, but will post that when it comes to light.

For posterity my crap measurements are saved. My spring measurements could not be repeated every time. My tools are junk.

free length 1.94"
Installed at 1.8 they were about 95lb seat and open 275 at .500
Installed at 1.6 it was 125 and 305

To clear up , the safe running lift is not 1/2" , the seal is going to touch. Lifts of .450-.460" cleared on votex heads with seals.
So your installed height with the 8mm locks and retainers was 1.600" Or is that 11/32 locks and 8mm retainers? Comp makes the proper retainer to run those beehive springs on a 11/32 valve stem with 11/32 locks, its like $65 a set for the retainers though. the tool to cut the guides down for better seals and reduced height is only $50, I bought one and have used it several times. A tap set can be picked up at Harbor Freight for like $20 (cheap but it works). Then you only have to buy shoulderless screw in studs and a Z28 spring kit to run a mild flat tappet cam with no worries. I've done that routine on a BUNCH of heads (usually i use better springs though) and it works great for a mild street engine.
09-30-2011 10:20 AM
cobalt327 Spinn, have you run this engine hard yet?
09-30-2011 10:11 AM
spinn Summit makes a number of headers, coatings , etc. Clearing up, that these are the basic $89 buck headers for a 85 gm truck.

The inside retainer dia must be the same from votx retainer to v6 retainer, or work with the v6 locks. There might be an extra retainer somewhere, if found the measurements will be posted. The seal part number is not on the reciept, but will post that when it comes to light.

For posterity my crap measurements are saved. My spring measurements could not be repeated every time. My tools are junk.

free length 1.94"
Installed at 1.8 they were about 95lb seat and open 275 at .500
Installed at 1.6 it was 125 and 305

To clear up , the safe running lift is not 1/2" , the seal is going to touch. Lifts of .450-.460" cleared on votex heads with seals.
09-30-2011 09:30 AM
cobalt327 It's hard to tell exactly, but looking at his photo below (from the thread I linked to above), the top of the locks do look to be protruding a bit more than usual from the 3100 retainers. If that is the case, the ID of the 3100 retainer may be smaller and this will reduce the I/H of the spring- but I don't know what the 3100 retainer design will give for an I/H when used on the Vortec head, w/11/32" locks. For all I know, the 3100 retainer and the 11/32" locks might have a combined I/H of 1.8" or more- I can't tell from Spin's posts what's up w/that.

But- in ANY event I would have serious reservations using a set-up that didn't provide full engagement of the locks into the retainer's ID. I'd like to have a 3100 retainer and locks to measure. Just by looking at the 3100 locks should show easily if they're the same or thicker than the 11/32" locks- which they'd have to be (thicker that is) to work on a 8mm stem, yet have the same OD as a 11/32" lock.

It looks like what may be needed here, is a lock designed for the 3100 retainer's ID and the 11/32" valve stem's OD- unless that would make the locks too thin to be stable.

09-30-2011 08:31 AM
ap72
Quote:
Originally Posted by cobalt327
I'm guessing "89" is the cost.


My take on the retainers is that, yes- they are used w/8mm valves. But as long as the ID of the retainer (where the locks sit) is the same as the retainer for the 11/32" valve (we know they're both 7), the retainers will work fine- provided you use the 11/32" locks and not try to use the 8mm locks.

This question also came up in THIS thread, although it was never really answered. But if my theory isn't correct, Spin would have surely dropped valves by now- provided that he has actually run this engine.
I'm pretty certain the ID is reduced for the smaller valvestem diameter, it is on all aftermarket 8mm retainers I can find, AND it is on the stock LS retainers. You could assemble it with 11/32 locks and incorrect retainers, it would just drastically reduce your installed height.
09-30-2011 08:15 AM
cobalt327
Quote:
Originally Posted by cobalt327
Thanks. What does the "89" mean in the "Summit headers 89"?
I'm guessing "89" is the cost.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ap72
Aren't those retainers and locks for a 8mm valve? The springs could work but I don't think the retainers and locks will.
My take on the retainers is that, yes- they are used w/8mm valves. But as long as the ID of the retainer (where the locks sit) is the same as the retainer for the 11/32" valve (we know they're both 7), the retainers will work fine- provided you use the 11/32" locks and not try to use the 8mm locks.

This question also came up in THIS thread, although it was never really answered. But if my theory isn't correct, Spin would have surely dropped valves by now- provided that he has actually run this engine.
09-30-2011 07:39 AM
ap72
Quote:
Originally Posted by spinn
The spring measurements were a mess. My equipment is not good, and work space is tight.

The 1.6" IH , measured with the 3100 retainers, that would yield a seat pressure of 124lb, and a .5" lift pressure of 306lb. The completed seat pressure is less cause the inst ht is 1.8 , these numbers are +/- bad testing equip. Got me a ball park and went with it. Have no cash, sometimes you have to experiment.

GM part numbers for these components are 10166343 for the valvesprings, and 10166344 for the retainers.

Summit headers 89 , and the fit is great. Nothing hangs down.
Aren't those retainers and locks for a 8mm valve? The springs could work but I don't think the retainers and locks will.
09-29-2011 09:50 PM
cobalt327
Quote:
Originally Posted by spinn
The spring measurements were a mess. My equipment is not good, and work space is tight.

The 1.6" IH , measured with the 3100 retainers, that would yield a seat pressure of 124lb, and a .5" lift pressure of 306lb. The completed seat pressure is less cause the inst ht is 1.8 , these numbers are +/- bad testing equip. Got me a ball park and went with it. Have no cash, sometimes you have to experiment.

GM part numbers for these components are 10166343 for the valvesprings, and 10166344 for the retainers.

Summit headers 89 , and the fit is great. Nothing hangs down.
Thanks. What does the "89" mean in the "Summit headers 89"? Do you recall the part number? What are they on- looks like maybe a Chevy truck?
09-29-2011 08:55 PM
spinn The spring measurements were a mess. My equipment is not good, and work space is tight.

The 1.6" IH , measured with the 3100 retainers, that would yield a seat pressure of 124lb, and a .5" lift pressure of 306lb. The completed seat pressure is less cause the inst ht is 1.8 , these numbers are +/- bad testing equip. Got me a ball park and went with it. Have no cash, sometimes you have to experiment.

GM part numbers for these components are 10166343 for the valvesprings, and 10166344 for the retainers.

Summit headers 89 , and the fit is great. Nothing hangs down.
09-29-2011 08:14 PM
cobalt327
Quote:
Originally Posted by spinn
Cobalt , is correct. The series 2 v6 gmp beehive springs, retainers, and umbrella seals will get you the clearance. The progressive spring rate and reduced recirpcating wt is a bonus. There will be benefits.

My installed cams are under .450 lift , but have confidence in the info . Look at the set up on my 305.

On a 360 the magnum heads can take the same valvetrain. The gmp beehives ,retainers, and viton seals work. Add a mp5249549 204/208 cam 1.6 rockers at .458/467 lift adds 46hp and 51 lbs to the magnum 300hp crate. That is not peanuts. A stones throw from the radical 380 crate, and smooth.
What are the specs on those springs- seat and open pressure? And what brand of headers are those? Look like they fit well.
09-29-2011 07:59 PM
spinn Cobalt , is correct. The series 2 v6 gmp beehive springs, retainers, and umbrella seals will get you the clearance. The progressive spring rate and reduced recirpcating wt is a bonus. There will be benefits.

My installed cams are under .450 lift , but have confidence in the info . Look at the set up on my 305.

On a 360 the magnum heads can take the same valvetrain. The gmp beehives ,retainers, and viton seals work. Add a mp5249549 204/208 cam 1.6 rockers at .458/467 lift adds 46hp and 51 lbs to the magnum 300hp crate. That is not peanuts. A stones throw from the radical 380 crate, and smooth.
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