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Topic Review (Newest First)
Today 05:56 AM
deadbodyman
Quote:
Originally Posted by shine View Post
i have no problem with phosphoric acid . i have used it since the early 70's . but when i switched to epoxy things changed .some cars i blast do not need it others do . i still use it but have to be diligent on how i use it . since the chemistry police are lurking we cant say neutralize any more so i will say rinse thoroughly while still wet . this will avoid any problems with the epoxy . the epoxy will still stick if not rinsed but only at about 60% and a possibility of other problems.
i have started using milkstone since a dairy friend here turned me onto it . the milkstone is 54% phosphoric acid where ospho ,navel jelly and such are around 15-30 % .so it will be cheaper once mixed with water or on bad rust used straight it will work a little better. the stuff the paint mfg sell is weak usually around 5%. good only for cleaning.

and a word of caution , paint mfg are in the business to sell you things whether you need it or not. the last place to seek advice is with a paint rep. follow tech advice but be cautious on product recommendations .

and the only thing you can convert rust to is a different color of rust .
never heard of milkstone ,whats it used for in the dairy biz?
Yesterday 07:16 PM
Lizer I see it there on the label too....56.33%
Yesterday 07:14 PM
shine Funny the gal says 56% on the lable . But it's only 12 bucks a gal here .
I only use it to clean on some things. My blasting rig get's it to white metal. Usually I just use dawn to get rid of oils .
Yesterday 06:40 PM
Lizer yeah Shine, your stuff only has 42%. Ospho has a whole whopping 3% more.
Yesterday 04:17 PM
Chevymon Yes I looked at that one, but it only has 42.25% by weight phosphoric.
http://www.stearnspkg.com/msds/bulk/...ACID-RINSE.pdf

Ospho has 45% by weight phosphoric
http://www.jamestowndistributors.com...PHO%20MSDS.pdf
Yesterday 03:11 PM
shine chevymon, Dairyland Milkstone Remover & Acid Rinse - Tractor Supply Co.
Yesterday 03:10 PM
shine
Quote:
Originally Posted by zardiw View Post
You wanna know what REALLY eats rust.......... Muriatic Acid.....cheap at Hardware stores in the Pool Supply section........Will eat steel also....but very slowly......It's good for reconditioning files...put a cap on a hunk of PVC Pipe and let em soak..........z
never ever do this.
Yesterday 01:57 PM
Chevymon Muratic acid or hydrocloric is a strong acid and not something that I want to use as a rust remover. The fumes alone will corrode the metal if you just leave the lid off, and if you use it on your metal panels it will open the pores and make it very difficult to stop the rust later on. Works good if you are using it as a flux for body solder (lead), but otherwise I don't want it around.
Yesterday 01:03 PM
zardiw You wanna know what REALLY eats rust.......... Muriatic Acid.....cheap at Hardware stores in the Pool Supply section........Will eat steel also....but very slowly......It's good for reconditioning files...put a cap on a hunk of PVC Pipe and let em soak..........z
Yesterday 11:26 AM
Chevymon Etch doesn't provide moisture protection by its self, it has to be primed over.
You spiked my interest Shine, so I checked for MSDS sheet on Milkstone and found several different mixtures. A couple of them didn't even list phosphoric acid and the percentage of the ones that do use it varies, but the highest I found was 42%, and no zinc phosphate.

Some of the ones that I looked at were off shore from the US, maybe someone can straighten me out on this, but I would suggest to anyone trying Milkstone to read the tech sheets to see if you have what you want.
Yesterday 10:55 AM
Lizer I started out originally using Sikkens wash primer (their etch primer) on my Mustang. At that time I just had the cowl and door jambs done after I stripped them. Etch primer is how I was taught. After I started seeing flash rust under the primer I said screw that, stripped it all off and that's when I first started using epoxy.
Yesterday 10:39 AM
shine milkstone is 56.33% phosphoric acid. ospho is 45% , naval jelly is around 15% . it's on their data sheets.
Yesterday 10:25 AM
Chevymon Where did you get those percentages Shine? As I recall from checking several years ago, those two should be about the same % phosphoric acid, and PPG DX579 just a little less. I don't use either one because I got a deal from my local acid stripper on 5 gal buckets of his product and it has zinc phosphate in it also which is a rust prohibiter
Yesterday 06:42 AM
shine i have no problem with phosphoric acid . i have used it since the early 70's . but when i switched to epoxy things changed .some cars i blast do not need it others do . i still use it but have to be diligent on how i use it . since the chemistry police are lurking we cant say neutralize any more so i will say rinse thoroughly while still wet . this will avoid any problems with the epoxy . the epoxy will still stick if not rinsed but only at about 60% and a possibility of other problems.
i have started using milkstone since a dairy friend here turned me onto it . the milkstone is 54% phosphoric acid where ospho ,navel jelly and such are around 15-30 % .so it will be cheaper once mixed with water or on bad rust used straight it will work a little better. the stuff the paint mfg sell is weak usually around 5%. good only for cleaning.

and a word of caution , paint mfg are in the business to sell you things whether you need it or not. the last place to seek advice is with a paint rep. follow tech advice but be cautious on product recommendations .

and the only thing you can convert rust to is a different color of rust .
Yesterday 05:38 AM
deadbodyman we've learned that epoxy is the best primer for bare metal.....but...every single paint manufacture has an etch primer ,and whats in an etch primer?phosphoric acid... I, along with about ALL the other pros have used plenty of etch primer without any issues but it needs another primer on top of it which requires more time and expense and its just not as good as epoxy....In my mind it makes more sense to clean my metal by scrubbing the acid in and thurohly cleaning it than just spraying on the acid on in a primer ,either way they need to be covered with primer anyways... that would make the etch primer obsolete.(useless)
Any of you guys that have done lead work ....or even soldered a wire or a copper pipe know that no matter how clean you get the metal by sanding, the solder wont stick until its cleaned with acid on a microscopic level. Granted epoxy and lead(solder) are completely different I just use this as an example of how clean is clean when prepping your metal
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