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Topic Review (Newest First)
08-29-2012 09:07 AM
boothboy Outstanding work! Congratulations! Do us a favor and report on the process to get this thing licensed. I'm curious about the process.
08-29-2012 07:26 AM
patentguy
Horizontal radiator cooling like a champ

Just to finish up on my original questions - and give an update on the project. This is going to be idling in parades so I wanted to maximize the cooling capability. I mounted the radiator horizontally and mounted two 14" fans underneath with a thermal switch/relay to kick both fans on when the water hits 195 degrees. I also mounted two heater cores from a VW Passat in front of the engine with each of them having an eight inch fan pulling air through whenever the water is over 185 degrees (these are plumbed into the heater hose ports on the water pump in intake). I installed air bleeders on the end cap of the aluminum radiator (just a simple tire valve) and on the top of the heater cores (a small screw with a rubber washer) to be sure I do not get air trapped in the system. The filler is mounted above the thermostat and the with the overflow/recovery tank mounted back next to the transmission.

One thing I wish I had done differently - I should have put each fan on its own relay with individual temp switches, so the fans come on in stages. When both big fans switch on then can bring the water temp down quickly and then shut off. It just seems like a lot of cycling on-off-on, etc. But it works so I will likely leave it as is. Next on the list is to get it certified street-legal...







CART PROFILE PIC | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

Untitled | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

Untitled | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
12-15-2011 08:27 AM
TroyBoy Watched the video and loved the music with it,lol. I love your build and wish you much success.
12-14-2011 04:34 PM
graydog Sounds good........just don't want anyone to get hurt.
12-14-2011 09:08 AM
patentguy
Quote:
Originally Posted by graydog
Nice looking work, but you have another SERIOUS problem:
The roll bars as shown in 2nd photo have no strength and will fold down on your head in the event of a roll over. For them to have any strength, they must form triangles. Parallelograms and rectangles will collapse. It's not too late to add some more bars to make it strong.

Thanks for your concern Graydog, this project's goal is to be street legal but it is principally a parade vehicle. Those are not rollbars you see on the upper rear section of the basket, there will be a piece of PVC pipe running between the curled sections to make it look like the push handle on a typical grocery cart.

There will be seat belts for some level of safety, but only a few "responsible" drivers will be operating this contraption and the number one rule will be "don't do anything stupid". It will be more show than go. Lots of chrome, LED lighting, big tires, flame-thrower exhaust, etc. All while keeping it under 35 mph. Mostly a rolling billboard for my son-in-laws family grocery store.
12-14-2011 08:45 AM
graydog Nice looking work, but you have another SERIOUS problem:
The roll bars as shown in 2nd photo have no strength and will fold down on your head in the event of a roll over. For them to have any strength, they must form triangles. Parallelograms and rectangles will collapse. It's not too late to add some more bars to make it strong.
12-12-2011 08:28 AM
biggsteve
trans cooler

something most people forget, but i almost always install a transmission cooler on any automatic trans. vehicle i get. about $100 bucks. keeps the 2 systems apart. jmho.
12-08-2011 06:09 PM
Richiehd I used a horizontal A/C condenser that was mounted under the rear of a 31 Chevy Sedan Street Rod. I did however mount it at a small angle to allow freon to flow from gas to liquid. Id like to see that radiator mounted at a similar angle(20-25 degrees) so there is no chance of an air pocket. What can happen is when the thermostat opens it could drain the block and leave an air pocket in the motor. This is just my opinion, I could be wrong, but that radiator is made to flow top to bottom leaving any air in the top near the cap.
Neat project though, Ilike the idea of big Tide box or maybe even a couple of large 12 packs. Good luck keep us informed.
By the way that A/C unit worked perfect in that drafty street rod, with 2 fans pulling down and out. I vented the running boards with several louvours to allow air. Drove that car from Florida to Syracuse one summer and Springfield the next.
I Love this Forum!!
12-08-2011 05:50 PM
patentguy
Quote:
Originally Posted by Custom10
That is one crazy ride, nice job.

I think you would have better luck moving the air up from the bottom rather than pulling it down with the fans. Can you mount your fans and shroud up top? or reverse polarity? hot air rises. Maybe you could fab some air deflectors to direct cool air from under the chassis up towards the bottom of the rad and that would help the air flow move up through the rad along with the fans. The rad will cool better with up flow IMHO
I like the idea of air deflectors below the radiators to move some air through the rad. The original layout drawing for the cart had the fans pulling air up from below, but as we started building someone pointed out that the principle place where the cart will be running is idling through parades where the hot asphalt and exhaust will be radiating heat. We flipped the system to use the somewhat cooler air above the radiator.

I need to give the current fan system a good test in warm conditions (hard to find in PA right now). My cooling system is not typical since it was never designed to use the air movement created by the cart cruising down the highway. But the long term goal is to make this street legal, so air movement at higher speeds will still be important.

I will try to give it a good test and then tweak the fans and radiator position. I will at least try changing the direction of the air (up vs. down) and see if that makes a difference. The blades are reversible and the motors can spin either way so changing the air direction should not be a problem.
12-08-2011 05:26 PM
Custom10
Quote:
Originally Posted by 406 bug
Great job on the Cart. Here is something you might want to consider. If you think about grocery carts and how shoppers load them up, you usually see the big bulky items on the bottom of the cart; this presents an ideal opportunity for you to screen the motor/drivetrain/radiator. Replicate a giant box of Tide or other large item for the bottom, along with a few items in the basket.
Now that is creative

make sure to leave some room in there for the beer!
12-08-2011 05:23 PM
Custom10 That is one crazy ride, nice job.

I think you would have better luck moving the air up from the bottom rather than pulling it down with the fans. Can you mount your fans and shroud up top? or reverse polarity? hot air rises. Maybe you could fab some air deflectors to direct cool air from under the chassis up towards the bottom of the rad and that would help the air flow move up through the rad along with the fans. The rad will cool better with up flow IMHO
12-08-2011 10:02 AM
matts37chev I agree, that is a very cool project

with the filler cap on the thermostat housing and a spit can it should be fine
if you were to tilt the rad a very small amount, (maybe add a 1" spacer to the mount) and add a spit can to it, you should have no problems at all
12-07-2011 06:09 PM
patentguy
Quote:
Originally Posted by farna
70s Corvettes have the radiator at a steep angle in front, and there have been mid engine cars with the radiator installed flat in the back. I've seen a couple truck rods with the radiator flat in the back. The flat mounting won't affect cooling as long as there is adequate air flow. The mounting just effects filling, and that problem has been solved. There should be no more problems with it as is. You might want to let it idle for 3-4 hours while you watch the temp gauge just to make sure -- wouldn't want to find out there is a problem in the middle of a parade!
Thanks Farna, my plan this weekend is to let it sit idling and see if the cooling system can keep up. If the system can't handle the heat I will look at alternative locations for the radiator. I need to commit to the position before the cart gets taken apart to get ready for paint.

BTW One of my first cars was a Rambler wagon, a '63 is on my list of cars I want to own again.
12-07-2011 05:40 PM
farna 70s Corvettes have the radiator at a steep angle in front, and there have been mid engine cars with the radiator installed flat in the back. I've seen a couple truck rods with the radiator flat in the back. The flat mounting won't affect cooling as long as there is adequate air flow. The mounting just effects filling, and that problem has been solved. There should be no more problems with it as is. You might want to let it idle for 3-4 hours while you watch the temp gauge just to make sure -- wouldn't want to find out there is a problem in the middle of a parade!
12-05-2011 11:48 AM
OneMoreTime Some ideas just do not work..I would get that radiator up as vertical as I could and get some shrouding on it to direct air into the radiator which will help the fans. Then lets get a fill on it above the highest level of coolant. Ford used a remote fill on some thunderbirds which had the radiator mounted very low in order to get a good fill..

Sam
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