Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board - Reply to Topic
Hotrodders.com -- Hot Rod Forum



Register FAQ Search Today's Posts Unanswered Posts Auto Escrow Insurance Auto Loans
Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board > Tech Help> Engine> Modern Electronic Engines> 350 vortec to tbi conversion
User Name
Password
lost password?   |   register now

Thread: 350 vortec to tbi conversion Reply to Thread
Title:
  
Message:
Trackback:
Send Trackbacks to (Separate multiple URLs with spaces) :

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name (usually not your first and last name), your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Additional Options
Miscellaneous Options

Topic Review (Newest First)
05-07-2013 09:55 AM
oldbogie
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrVette View Post
OldBoogie,

Aren't the 5.7L - Vortec Combustion chamber volume 64cc ?

and the 5.7L - 87-95 TBI heads 76cc ?

You are quite correct this would resolve a major hurdle, however it would take a competent machine shop to shave the heads on an "angle-cut" to resolve the major lack of compression.

Sorry, for the lack of understanding the adapter from MPFI to TBI deal

Edit to say:
Thanks guys for the lack of lighting me up with a 55gl trash bag full of acetylene
Interpretation, thanks for not Flaming Me as a N00b here
A need to check the head casting; there are two variations of the swirl port the 14102191 has a 76 cc chamber but is usually only found on 3/4 ton with tow package and heavier trucks with the 190 horse 350. The 14102193 casting is found on 1/2 ton models and 3/4 ton without tow package with the 207 horse 350. Other than the heads the engines are the same except the 207may have 2 or 4 bolted mains where the 190 will only be 4 bolt mains. But GM is given to some inconsistancy so looking at the part is the only positive way to be sure.

Bogie
05-02-2013 01:32 PM
gearheadslife
Quote:
Originally Posted by cobalt327 View Post
I apologize for posting to this thread w/o warning that it was old. I should have said something in my last post- my mistake.
don't it brought it to the top and some of this will help me..
(I s__k at search)
01-08-2013 07:38 PM
cobalt327 I apologize for posting to this thread w/o warning that it was old. I should have said something in my last post- my mistake.
01-08-2013 06:09 PM
64nailhead Megasquirt !

MegaSquirt | Engine Management System | Electronic Fuel Injection - DIYAutoTune.com

With what you've described, the Vortec is a running engine with a good harness and sensors. If that is the case, then for less than $600 grab a MSII with the relay board and cable.

You will never need to burn a chip and hope the chip PROM was good, not just functional (good is the enemy of better and best.) You can eliminate emissions functions or keep them OR, the best part, keep them on the engine and turn them off until you head to the inspection station. Grab a wideband O2 sensor and then you can tune for mileage much better than the stock ECM ever could. Basically you can tune for AFR ratio's better for mileage in cruise condition and better for torque and horsepower in performance situations.

If you use a 97 4L series transmission, then an MSIII is capable of running the engine and trans. I assume your TBI setup is running a 2004r/700r4 old scholl mechanical other than for maybe road speed and TCC - the MSII can handle both.

$600 bucks sound like a lot of jing, but how much are you going to spend in ECM chip programming just to get a stock running unit.

I want to be sure that I sound respectful to these guys that have offered advice as I've followed alot of their posts for quite some time and these guys know their poop, but...........I think that if you start adding up prices on swapping parts from the two different engines and/or buying parts to do the swaps, and then compare that price to the Megasquirt pricing you'll find the MS cheaper or at least comparable. And also consider that you can swap in the running Vortec which is way more motor than the TBI long block.

And the best part is the datalogging and tunability - NO comparison. FYI - the software and firmware is FREE to everyone, and system is able to handle boost/nitrous control and timing control at the same time while still being a daily driver.

DIYAUTOTUNE's support is great also. Good luck. Sounds like a great swap that I'd love to try.
01-07-2013 01:27 AM
cobalt327
Quote:
Originally Posted by cobalt327 View Post
The easiest way to go about this will be to use a Vortec TBI intake to reuse the TBI unit from the '87 on the Vortec engine. Reuse the sensors from the '87 on the '97 Vortec engine as well.

The spider/poppet EFI set up used on the '97 Vortec isn't a favorite among builders, anyway- even though they work OK for a stock or mild application. You could use a TBI adaptor (others are available, I believe Trans-Dapt are the least expensive) on a Vortec carbed intake instead of the GMPP TBI Vortec intake, this option could be cheaper if you can find a used Vortec carb intake.
Link above is broken,

(click on image for more info)
12-21-2011 08:19 PM
cobalt327
Quote:
Originally Posted by matt167
GM used factory TBI adaptors for 4bbl manifolds on the earlier 454's. Holley makes the same adapter.. Holley #17-45. Have EGR tuned out, or get '96-'98 manifolds and EGR tubes. It's a common swap.
I have a set of '97 Vortec exhaust manifolds and the EGR supply piping for photos if needed. Headers could be plumbed too, I suppose. The OEM parts would make life easier, though.

The casting number of the left manifold w/the EGR tube fitting is 24673. The right is c/n 24172.
12-21-2011 07:59 PM
cobalt327
Quote:
Originally Posted by thekcbeast
well i actually have another option i have an older bare block casting # 3970010 that i also considered turning in to a tbi motor by using my tbi intake and swirl port head. nowdo you guys think this would be a better an more cost -effective build instead of going to the vortec?
That's all well and good if you don't want the advantages- and hassle- of using Vortec heads. But you'd also get a hydraulic roller cam and 1-piece rear main seal. To me it's a step or two backwards to use an older 2-piece RMS block and if it needs "the works", it won't be cheaper than the Vortec long block unless the Vortec needs everything, too.

I had thought this was a performance upgrade, not just getting something into the truck that will run. At the end of the day it's up to you to decide how to spend your time and money.

Good luck.
12-21-2011 07:56 PM
cobalt327 ---------------
12-21-2011 07:32 PM
thekcbeast well i actually have another option i have an older bare block casting # 3970010 that i also considered turning in to a tbi motor by using my tbi intake and swirl port head. nowdo you guys think this would be a better an more cost -effective build instead of going to the vortec?
12-21-2011 06:50 PM
matt167 GM used factory TBI adaptors for 4bbl manifolds on the earlier 454's. Holley makes the same adapter.. Holley #17-45. Have EGR tuned out, or get '96-'98 manifolds and EGR tubes. It's a common swap.
12-21-2011 06:23 PM
DrVette Regardless of which intake manifold you use, there's an issue to be sorted out as noted by OldBoogie, the EGR deal.

Are there any Engine Machinists in here who might know if the Vortec Heads can be drilled to allow EGR flow, or is the exhaust manifold plumbing idea more feasable ?

Vortec Heads do NOT have crossover heat passages, so there is no exhaust to provide to the EGR.

Quote:
The manifold has a special water passage under the plenum to keep the fuel vaporized

The drawback to Vortec heads on a TBI engine is the need to plumb gases from the exhaust manifold to the EGR valve.
GM recommends using the '96 exhaust manifold (PN 12557828),
EGR pipe (PN 10220275),
and EGR valve (PN 17052693).
http://www.customclassictrucks.com/techarticles/0405cct_vortec_cylinder_heads_small_block_chevy/index.html


As copied from another site, the TBI heating issue from water is addressed by GM with the manifold.

Hangeth-On, there, I am positive that in due time, resolutions to each of these issues will be forthcoming.

DrVette
12-21-2011 05:47 PM
cobalt327 Not speaking for OB, but I believe you'll find the 5.7L TBI swirl port heads and the Vortec heads have comparable chamber volumes- usually advertised as a nominal 64cc.

And welcome to Hotrodders!
12-21-2011 05:46 PM
DrVette Notice, the adapters at "Trans-Dapt" are only listed to bolt to carburetor type intakes.

The TBI to manifold adapters listed were Holley, they may have the same bolt pattern I dunno.

I took a quick look at my 5.7L Vortec, the diameter of the hole is near 3" or so.

I'm pretty sure I could make an adapter to put the TBI on it at home..

Only issue is, my "estimates" on labor regarding things of this nature are,,, errr WRONG Every time.

Still, I'm sure a handyman could fabricate one from steel or aluminum if the has a TIG setup in a few hours.

IF someone does this trick, I'd bet 10cents the hood clearance would come into play, time for the old "Mount the air cleaner on the fender-well trick"

Someone said e-bay had some but they were hand made..

Quote:
thekcbeast
Just Hang On a bit, this issue can be sorted out with hopefully a minimal cost to you.

DrVette
12-21-2011 05:21 PM
DrVette
Quote:
A simple solution would be to rebuild the 87 heads and put them on the 97, that completely gets around the intake fit
OldBoogie,

Aren't the 5.7L - Vortec Combustion chamber volume 64cc ?

and the 5.7L - 87-95 TBI heads 76cc ?

You are quite correct this would resolve a major hurdle, however it would take a competent machine shop to shave the heads on an "angle-cut" to resolve the major lack of compression.

Sorry, for the lack of understanding the adapter from MPFI to TBI deal

Edit to say:
Thanks guys for the lack of lighting me up with a 55gl trash bag full of acetylene
Interpretation, thanks for not Flaming Me as a N00b here
12-21-2011 05:14 PM
cobalt327
Quote:
Originally Posted by latech
the vortec fuel pump puts out 60-66 psi also , it may be ok on the TBI system,but the fuel lines at the back of the motor are also very different, neccessitating a change for those also.
I think the Vortec long block is going to replace a TBI engine in his '87 'Burb, so the fuel pump should be OK, right?
This thread has more than 15 replies. Click here to review the whole thread.

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:15 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
Copyright Hotrodders.com 1999 - 2012. All Rights Reserved.