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Topic Review (Newest First)
09-24-2014 09:20 AM
1971BB427
Quote:
Originally Posted by gearheadslife View Post
incorrect,, but, no reason to post it,
but to say most hosers,eh got the Pontiac engine..

no it's not besides the point, you telling me that I'm just need to argue, nope, I replied to a person that , posted that didn't read
but it's no matter that ,that person mixes up generations of trucks..

have a good day/night.. incorrect engine/trans angles are the #1 reason for chasing vibrations..
wonder how a clutch z bar and parts work with the block in the incorrect spot..
but guess that not matter..
One thing I've learned over the years is g.m. doesn't make, tool, and stock, catalog a part unless there is a very good reason.. otherwise they'd use the same part for both app's.. Sure you can dump the engine on the wrong stands, then wonder why the clutch parts don't fit, or headers, automatic shifter linkage hitting the exhaust manifold, and such..

but no matter.. offering info is just agrue'n, I guess..

As for the height creating differences in linkage pivot points or Z bar pivot points, we're back to the same thing I've said over and over again. It wont change if the correct motor mount and frame mount are used together! In their wisdom, the Chevrolet engineers not only made the motor mounts the same distance from the bellhousing, they also set the clutch pivot ball hole to allow it to be in the same spot as a SBC. I've never done a SBC to BBC swap yet (automatic or clutch) and ever had a clutch Z bar not line up, and be level.
Additionally, if you try to use the BBC motor mounts without using the correct BBC frame mounts, the through bolt wont go through. As I've repeatedly said, the mounts have to be used in matched sets of BBC or SBC frame and motor mounts.
And you continue to ignore what I said about header or exhausts clearing. I've used SBC mounts on BBC swaps in many cases, and yet to find a header, or stock exhaust cast manifold that didn't clear or had any interference issue. Regardless of Camaro, Chevelle, Chevy truck, I've not had any issue with any of them hitting, or not lining up.
As for driveline angles and vibration. The difference in the two mounts is less than 3/4", which might change the engine/trans angle a degree or so. You'd probably see more change by raising the rear axle with shackles, or air shocks, and I've never had a vibration yet from either the motor mounts, or raising the rear end of a car. I've built enough cars over the last 50 years to know how important driveline angles are, but I also know that slight differences don't create any vibration that can be felt inside the car.
You can call it offering information, but it sure looks like you just want to ignore facts. Fact is, there are all sorts of swaps done without using the factory frame and motor mounts; and that's what the OP question was asking. If he's looking for options, and wanting to know what works, then he should know there's more than one way to do the swap.
Since I can't find an "ignore" tab to click on for you, I'll simply unsubscribe to this post now. I've got better things to do than continue this back and forth thing.
09-23-2014 08:05 PM
gearheadslife
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1971BB427 View Post
Since you still want to argue. It matters not whether it's a 80's or a '67, when the subject of Pontiac engines is added by you. They didn't have Pontiac engines in 1967 either. They used Chevy sixes from the 50's on, and Chevy V8's from the late 50's on.
And yes, the 80's mounts he mentioned threw me off, but that's beside the point. The 80's mounts will most certainly work, but it depends on what time period of the 80's.
incorrect,, but, no reason to post it,
but to say most hosers,eh got the Pontiac engine..

no it's not besides the point, you telling me that I'm just need to argue, nope, I replied to a person that , posted that didn't read
but it's no matter that ,that person mixes up generations of trucks..

have a good day/night.. incorrect engine/trans angles are the #1 reason for chasing vibrations..
wonder how a clutch z bar and parts work with the block in the incorrect spot..
but guess that not matter..
One thing I've learned over the years is g.m. doesn't make, tool, and stock, catalog a part unless there is a very good reason.. otherwise they'd use the same part for both app's.. Sure you can dump the engine on the wrong stands, then wonder why the clutch parts don't fit, or headers, automatic shifter linkage hitting the exhaust manifold, and such..

but no matter.. offering info is just agrue'n, I guess..
09-23-2014 07:00 PM
1971BB427
Quote:
Originally Posted by gearheadslife View Post
No, I stated that there has to be a reason g.m. made 2 sets of frame stands, I'd agree with you, if g.m. didn't build vehicles with drilled holes for every engine avail in a body line, so there is more to it.. or they would have drilled the frame stands for both engines,
My bet and I'll know when I have both side by side, the big block ones more than likely puts the engine off center and over on the pass side, like big block mounts/brackets do to most g.m. cars..

big block trucks are not huge money, so for the mounts to command the money they do, there is a reason, and it's not for chalk mark resto's. as the trucks are not worth big coin.. I'm sure you'll have a nice tackfull reply.. again..
Yes, the reason for two mounts is hood clearance. As I said before (please read the previous posts over, and over) the height is the difference. Chevy made a very low rise intake for BBC going into cars, and also made different motor mounts to further gain hood clearance.
As for the mounts commanding "big money", that's just Year One. They don't sell enough of them, so they jack the prices to an exorbitant amount. Take a look around their catalog and you'll see their pricing is silly high. They charge $129 a pair for motor mounts for a SBC, that I can buy at the local parts store for $25 a pair. They charge huge money for SBC frame mounts, so as anyone can see, their prices are ridiculous. The only way I'd buy anything from Year One is if nobody else had the parts, and I couldn't fabricate them myself.
Get a look at the competition's catalogs, and in most cases Year One is way out of line on their pricing, and not because their stuff is always rare.
09-23-2014 06:52 PM
1971BB427
Quote:
Originally Posted by gearheadslife View Post
Hey all,

I'm wanting to drop a big block in this Chevy pickup, What can you guys tell me as far as mounts are concerned.. Doesn't have to look pretty, I just want to get this thing mobile..

Straight 6 came out, we want to install a big block..

I do have a set of brackets from a mid 80s suburban sitting around.. maybe I can hack into those.. any ideas?

Or is there a company that has them for a decent price?


going by the thread title, 67 c10 bb frame mounts

I'm thinking it's not an 80's pick up. or him having mounts from an 80's suburban, he'd not be asking..
Since you still want to argue. It matters not whether it's a 80's or a '67, when the subject of Pontiac engines is added by you. They didn't have Pontiac engines in 1967 either. They used Chevy sixes from the 50's on, and Chevy V8's from the late 50's on.
And yes, the 80's mounts he mentioned threw me off, but that's beside the point. The 80's mounts will most certainly work, but it depends on what time period of the 80's.
09-23-2014 06:43 PM
gearheadslife
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1971BB427 View Post
Did you not read my post correctly? I did say the SBC and BBC use different stands. YOU are the one who questioned that GM would use two different parts. YES AGAIN, the SBC and BBC use different stands, or bases, or whatever you want to call the frame portion of the motor mount. And you have to use the correct base or frame mount, with the correct motor mount.
I do know what the difference is. It's the height of the frame mount, and the height of the motor mount.
But once again, you do not have to use BBC stands and motor mounts, unless you're looking to do a concours correct install, and want things to be exactly as Chevrolet made them originally.
If you just like to argue, we can continue to go over the same thing again and again, or you can read what I wrote in my reply. Geez.
No, I stated that there has to be a reason g.m. made 2 sets of frame stands, I'd agree with you, if g.m. didn't build vehicles with drilled holes for every engine avail in a body line, so there is more to it.. or they would have drilled the frame stands for both engines,
My bet and I'll know when I have both side by side, the big block ones more than likely puts the engine off center and over on the pass side, like big block mounts/brackets do to most g.m. cars..

big block trucks are not huge money, so for the mounts to command the money they do, there is a reason, and it's not for chalk mark resto's. as the trucks are not worth big coin.. I'm sure you'll have a nice tackfull reply.. again..
09-23-2014 06:35 PM
gearheadslife
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1971BB427 View Post
And better read up on your GMC history. His truck is an 80's and GNC was using Chevy engines long before that time. Maybe some Canadian trucks used something different than Chevy engines?
GMC V8 engine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Hey all,

I'm wanting to drop a big block in this Chevy pickup, What can you guys tell me as far as mounts are concerned.. Doesn't have to look pretty, I just want to get this thing mobile..

Straight 6 came out, we want to install a big block..

I do have a set of brackets from a mid 80s suburban sitting around.. maybe I can hack into those.. any ideas?

Or is there a company that has them for a decent price?


going by the thread title, 67 c10 bb frame mounts

I'm thinking it's not an 80's pick up. or him having mounts from an 80's suburban, he'd not be asking..
09-22-2014 05:56 PM
1971BB427
Quote:
Originally Posted by gearheadslife View Post

The gmc's got Pontiac, so those stands are out there also..
And better read up on your GMC history. His truck is an 80's and GNC was using Chevy engines long before that time. Maybe some Canadian trucks used something different than Chevy engines?
GMC V8 engine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
09-22-2014 05:51 PM
1971BB427
Quote:
Originally Posted by gearheadslife View Post
Here is the thing, year one among others would have never got 100+ per side for the stands if they are the same as the small block ones, something is different.. I won't know until, and if I ever put the 489 in my truck.
I'm sure many have dumped the bbc on the sbc stands.. and if his cab is the low hump or high hump might be the difference.. again.. not 100% sure..

The gmc's got Pontiac, so those stands are out there also..

I could see the bbc stands being worth good money if these trucks were worth allot , but when I bought my stands the trucks even the top trim ones were not big money..
I don't know what the difference is exactly, but there must be one..
Did you not read my post correctly? I did say the SBC and BBC use different stands. YOU are the one who questioned that GM would use two different parts. YES AGAIN, the SBC and BBC use different stands, or bases, or whatever you want to call the frame portion of the motor mount. And you have to use the correct base or frame mount, with the correct motor mount.
I do know what the difference is. It's the height of the frame mount, and the height of the motor mount.
But once again, you do not have to use BBC stands and motor mounts, unless you're looking to do a concours correct install, and want things to be exactly as Chevrolet made them originally.
If you just like to argue, we can continue to go over the same thing again and again, or you can read what I wrote in my reply. Geez.
09-22-2014 03:36 PM
gearheadslife Here is the thing, year one among others would have never got 100+ per side for the stands if they are the same as the small block ones, something is different.. I won't know until, and if I ever put the 489 in my truck.
I'm sure many have dumped the bbc on the sbc stands.. and if his cab is the low hump or high hump might be the difference.. again.. not 100% sure..

The gmc's got Pontiac, so those stands are out there also..

I could see the bbc stands being worth good money if these trucks were worth allot , but when I bought my stands the trucks even the top trim ones were not big money..
I don't know what the difference is exactly, but there must be one..
09-22-2014 12:23 PM
1971BB427
Quote:
Originally Posted by gearheadslife View Post
bet the height is different, stand bolt spots and mounting lugs on block sides, and deck height.. engine higher will tilled the distributor into the firewall, and cause brake booster to valve cover issues and a/c box..(taller than stock v/c's)


g.m. would not make different part # frame stands if they didn't need to.. The rule of the bean counters..
Don't bet money on GM not making different frame stands! Suprprisingly you'd think they wouldn't, but they did.
Depends on what you mean by "height". Yes, the BBC is a taller block, but I've never had an issue with bolting them right up to SBC frame and motor mounts. Might be a hood clearance issue when swapping SBC to BBC, as the block deck is definitely taller, and that's why Chevy used a low rise intake on BBC powered cars, to get hood clearance.
Going the other route from a BBC vehicle to a SBC, it works the same. The key is the frame and motor mounts need to be matched. Chevy used different frame pads, and motor mounts, so if you swap either direction, you need to use both frame and motor mounts from the same. A BBC motor mount bolts right on a SBC engine, but one mount is taller than the other, as are the frame pads the reverse. Can't mix them, but you certainly can use either on either engine, as long as the motor and frame mounts are kept together.

Camaros with BBC used a different heater box, and outlets were not on the engine side, but rather turned 180 degrees towards the pass. side fender. Power brake boosters were also an issue, so that was why they used a different frame and motor mount combo, to allow the valve cover clearance for removal. They even had a valve cover with a beveled rear to help clear for removal.
With all the factory did, you could still drop a BBC right into a SBC powered Camaro, by just re-using the SBC frame and motor mounts. (done dozens of them) They clear all the things GM made clearances for, and the only time there's an issue is if you use tall valve covers. Then the heater core outlets interfere, and the brake booster hits. Even the aftermarket BBC in Camaro headers bolt up, and clear everything.
This is a 427 in a 2nd gen Camaro, using SBC frame and motor mounts, with Doug Thorley headers. Had to grind the fins off the pass. side valve cover at the rear, to clear the heater hose outlets.
09-22-2014 11:54 AM
gearheadslife
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1971BB427 View Post
The measurement from bellhousing surface to motor mount is exactly the same between SBC and BBC. The engine wont be farther back in a BBC vs. a SBC, just more engine forward from the motor mounts on a BBC. Chevy made the distances the same, so as to not require the trans to be moved back, or a different firewall when using either engine in the same vehicle.
bet the height is different, stand bolt spots and mounting lugs on block sides, and deck height.. engine higher will tilled the distributor into the firewall, and cause brake booster to valve cover issues and a/c box..(taller than stock v/c's)


g.m. would not make different part # frame stands if they didn't need to.. The rule of the bean counters..
09-22-2014 11:22 AM
1971BB427 The measurement from bellhousing surface to motor mount is exactly the same between SBC and BBC. The engine wont be farther back in a BBC vs. a SBC, just more engine forward from the motor mounts on a BBC. Chevy made the distances the same, so as to not require the trans to be moved back, or a different firewall when using either engine in the same vehicle.
09-22-2014 11:16 AM
gearheadslife The 67-72 bbc frame stands are costly, I bought a set of g.m. ones in 2002-3 when year one had them.. year one still has at least one side..
many stuff the bbc on the small block stands.. but I'm sure that causes issues with header fitment and engine angles and such..
The 73-87 engine cross member and front set up is a bolt in on the 67-72 and many do that for disc brakes, and tho not a needed swap in this o/p question.. I'm willing to bet the 73-87 bbc frame mounts/stands are a bolt in also.. can't see how they'd not.. other than them being set up for the clamshell type motormount , instead of earlier type mount .
I have both, and haven't looked at both side by side to see if there is any differences ,other than where the holes are drilled for the moutormount(rubber) ..

IIRC the straight 6 mount/stand puts small blocks tight against the firewall, and a bbc would only be worse..

Won't be near the parts to look and see what is different between the 67-72 bbc truck frame stands and the 73-87 (these are 86) ones.. for a few days, doctor appointments/etc will kill any chance of that..
09-22-2014 09:59 AM
1971BB427 I've swapped big blocks into trucks with small blocks and not had an issue with the frame mounts. In the SBC to BBC swap, I just got the taller motor mounts, and everything fit perfectly.
09-21-2014 07:58 PM
jtz55 Here's a thought wasn't the 348 cid chevy technically a big block.if so was it offered in a truck in the fifties.I think the motor made its debut in 58.
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