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Black Work Van with old removed decal fade showing up- Way to eliminate this?

19K views 56 replies 9 participants last post by  Old Fool 
#1 ·
I've got a van that used to be a shuttle that is Black with lots of decals that have been removed. There is no adhesive residue left but it's got sort of a UV haze that has been left around the decals.

I gave it a good buffing and this brought the dead paint back to life and it was very hard to see where the decals were. However after a year it came back just as bad.

Is there a way to eliminate this?
 
#2 ·
777funk said:
I've got a van that used to be a shuttle that is Black with lots of decals that have been removed. There is no adhesive residue left but it's got sort of a UV haze that has been left around the decals.

I gave it a good buffing and this brought the dead paint back to life and it was very hard to see where the decals were. However after a year it came back just as bad.

Is there a way to eliminate this?
Not really. The paint that was under the decals is not as aged from the UV rays as the exposed paint. A complete paint job is the only fix that I know of. IMO
 
#3 ·
adantessr said:
Not really. The paint that was under the decals is not as aged from the UV rays as the exposed paint. A complete paint job is the only fix that I know of. IMO
That's what I was thinking.

Ok... new thread. Cheapest way to paint this thing black. I'm guessing SPI Clear will be a great option. I've been wanting to try that product for a while.

A van is a lot of paint!
 
#5 ·
deadbodyman said:
even a repaint wont cure the problem no matter how much sanding you do ...the only way to make them go away is to sand ,PRIME,re sand then paint....its a real PITA
Just a question, deadbodyman, since I am sure you have painted many many more cars than I have. Would a good sanding, and then a sealer, then a topcoat work also ?
 
#6 ·
I wish it would...I'm doing one right now ,its a high top van with decal type graghics all over it...removing the graghics then the old glue (3M adheasive remover),I sand with 180 prime ,then sand...as far as I know this is the only way to garuntee there is no ghost of the decals coming back.
 
#7 ·
deadbodyman said:
even a repaint wont cure the problem no matter how much sanding you do ...the only way to make them go away is to sand ,PRIME,re sand then paint....its a real PITA

how so.. sand the black, spray sealer,(they call it sealer for a reason) then either prime and sand , or just start with the base..
if older paint is bleading through your sealer. somethings wrong..
 
#8 ·
Agree with DBM, its a ***** to get rid of.

The problem is the paint under the graphic did not shrink as much as the unprotected paint.
There is a height difference and until you do something about that difference you will continue to see it.

My experiance is sand it all off or feather sand all edges of the ghost, then build up with 2k primer, then block flat.

Sealer by itself won't do any good, it is not bleed it is height differences.

I'd seal the whole vehicle with SPI epoxy mixed 1:1:1 before putting a color coat on it.
 
#9 ·
Now I'm afraid to move! Thanks a lot guys:) lol.

You have me pretty nervous about the ghosting of the decals coming back after spending hours of hard work. But I guess better to know now than later right!

Would sanding off the dead clear and spraying the SPI Black epoxy seal it off or not really?


So DBM, what's the best way to 180 it? Dynabrade with a 3/16" orbit and a non loading disk? If I'm using the Epoxy as a base coat I'm hoping I won't have to 180 grit it to the metal. I'd hate to do that.
 
#10 ·
Old Fool said:
Agree with DBM, its a ***** to get rid of.

The problem is the paint under the graphic did not shrink as much as the unprotected paint.
There is a height difference and until you do something about that difference you will continue to see it.

My experiance is sand it all off or feather sand all edges of the ghost, then build up with 2k primer, then block flat.

Sealer by itself won't do any good, it is not bleed it is height differences.

I'd seal the whole vehicle with SPI epoxy mixed 1:1:1 before putting a color coat on it.
so you are say'n that the height difference is more than the mil' of a sealer coat, 2 coats of primer and a block sand.. and it'll still show?
 
#11 ·
it is one of the hardest things to accomplish. you will need to take it down to metal . then do several coats of epoxy and let it cure for a few weeks. then sand and reprime with epoxy and you can paint. dont be surprised if it ghost back on you some . even the metal under it is effected by the decals.
 
#13 ·
stich626 said:
so you are say'n that the height difference is more than the mil' of a sealer coat, 2 coats of primer and a block sand.. and it'll still show?
Just remember, that coat of sealer, 2 coats of primer are on everything, you will need to block it down to the point that the "decal" ghosts are no higher than the surrounding area.

Like I said before feather edge the ghosts so the transition is not so abrupt, then build it up and block it out.
Good chance it will be gone for good... but there is that 1/1000 chance it might reappear some dark and gloomy night, LOL.
 
#14 ·
Old Fool said:
Just remember, that coat of sealer, 2 coats of primer are on everything, you will need to block it down to the point that the "decal" ghosts are no higher than the surrounding area.

Like I said before feather edge the ghosts so the transition is not so abrupt, then build it up and block it out.
Good chance it will be gone for good... but there is that 1/1000 chance it might reappear some dark and gloomy night, LOL.
but after you block it, it's never coming back, right..
 
#15 · (Edited)
Old Fool said:
Just remember, that coat of sealer, 2 coats of primer are on everything, you will need to block it down to the point that the "decal" ghosts are no higher than the surrounding area.

Like I said before feather edge the ghosts so the transition is not so abrupt, then build it up and block it out.
Good chance it will be gone for good... but there is that 1/1000 chance it might reappear some dark and gloomy night, LOL.
if your doing a high dollar show job Shine has it right,go right down to the metal we dont take any chances on that level .....
If your doing a daily driver and a D.I Y. to boot,just sand the old paint with 180 prime it then DA it with 320 or wet block with 400 and you'll be fine with or without a paint sealer.....The van I'm doing right now is NOT getting a sealer because its gray primer and the paint is artic gray and only a SS paint ,its not a high dollar job but it wont show a ghost either. but theres always that 1/10th of 1% chance...I dont usually use a sealer but if I had a black car with gray primer I would spray a coat of black on the gray primer spots wait 10 min then start spraying the car.when I do use a sealer its always SPI epoxy 1:1 at 10-20% and it always gets sanded a little before I paint or at least the dirt and trash gets nubbed before I paint
 
#16 ·
777funk said:
That's what I was thinking.

Ok... new thread. Cheapest way to paint this thing black. I'm guessing SPI Clear will be a great option. I've been wanting to try that product for a while.

A van is a lot of paint!
Ok some might not agree but the cheapest black paint job i know of is to use the SPI black epoxy primer and then universal clear over that..shines good and is holding up after 5 years in service..

Sam
 
#20 ·
777funk said:
What's the best way to buzz it down with 80 grit?

I've got a Dynabrade, a National Detroit Inline 1/3 sheet sander, and a right angle buffer polisher (rotary).

Wet/Dry 80 or stearated dry paper?
You'll need to use the 80 grit with a D/A sander. And then after priming use 320 grit on the D/A . If repainting in black. I would reprime after the D/A sanding and block sand with 400 wet, using a guide coat. Black will show every imperfection.
 
#22 ·
OneMoreTime said:
I would use the dynabrade to remove the paint and feather back to good paint. In fact I would dynabrade the whole thing after a good scrubbing with Dawn and hot water..

Sam
I don't know what kind of dynabrade you have. I just checked the website, and there are many different dynabrade products. If you have a dynabrade orbital sander, it will work just fine. Same action as a D/A .
 
#23 ·
adantessr said:
I don't know what kind of dynabrade you have. I just checked the website, and there are many different dynabrade products. If you have a dynabrade orbital sander, it will work just fine. Same action as a D/A .
I have a Dynabrade Palm (DA orbital sander) with a 3/32" orbit.

I've got several air sanders of different types and an electric Random Orbital with two different orbit sizes.
 
#24 · (Edited)
shine said:
regardless of what you use you need to buzz it down good with 80 grit then epoxy it ..
I'm going to have to disagree here on two points First off epoxy isnt the best choice For this job for two reasons ,it takes to long to cure and it although it will fill it wont fill like a 2K build primer...two coats of build primer will be plenty and it'll ready for sanding the next day instead of next week....
Second 80 is a bit to agressive ,all you want to do is level the surface a little and provide a rough enough surface for the primer to stick,...Sure 80 will work but it'll take the paint down to the metal in many spots and excentuate and actually cause divets and waves from sanding ,especally from someone with little experiance using a DA,not to mention the 80 grit scratches themselves that'll now need to be filled and sanded , its just not necessary to get rid of the ghost edges from the vinyl,(after all its only the edges were talking about that'll show) ,your just trying to fill that little step.
Theres no sence making this a big job ,it isnt going to be a show truck and trust me, the last thing in the world you want to do is strip a van, you just want the have a nice truck and do it yourself...Over the years I've done hundreds of trucks and vans like this it works great and its the fastest way with the least amount of work....also the cheapest.....
regaurdless of what you sand with whether its 80 or 180 you cant just sand then prime ,it'll have to be 320 sanded about 4 inches farther out than you sanded with the rougher paper other wise you'll be spending the whole day sanding primer off unsanded paint...always "outline" with 320 before priming..I just thought I'd throw that in there because it never seems to be brought up but its something that must be done.like using a wax& grease remover ,sometimes we over look telling newbies this because we just do it automaticly without even thinking about it. its important ...
 
#25 ·
during the 80's i ran close to 10 units a day on average and they were new . at the end of the year we had to deal with the two tone crew cabs. 10 to 15 a week. the only way to get rid of the tape stripe was to remove it and buzz the area with 80. you can not prime it away. it is the metal that is effected and 80 is needed to get rid of the ridge . you can prime and block all you want but once it hits the sun it will ghost back. as for epoxy i can shoot today and sand tomorrow .
 
#26 ·
Also DBM, I'll be spraying the whole van. I don't know if I mentioned that or not. But the entire van is pretty faded. It needs new paint. I suppose maybe I could sand back the clear and buff. Last time I just buffed with a medium compound and that took the faded look away but it came back.

I'm thinking the only way to get rid of it is to sand and repaint. I think my new plan is:
-Sand the decal areas to metal with 100 grit (I have lots of 100 disks).
-Sand the metal to 180 to refine the 100 a bit
-Sand the whole thing to 320 and scuff all paint

Then:
-Spray two coats of black SPI epoxy primer
-Spray two coats of Univeral Clear

If all is ok call it done. If it's got anything I don't like, sand it out and spray another coat of clear.
 
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