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Topic Review (Newest First)
04-21-2012 12:08 PM
delawarebill
nosie pump

i also have a HV pump. and i don't recall it making a noise when i primed the engine.. it did feel a pulse like, i'm thinking cause its a hv pump.. i also used an elect drill.. sbc engine.. don't recall the brand name of pump..
04-21-2012 10:39 AM
v8hed Just another update on this...

I found this YouTube clip... listen to how noisy this brand new Melling pump sounds when the guy starts turning the drive shaft. You can imagine how notchy it feels when he's turning it, too...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKA42hlpyIY
04-16-2012 05:06 PM
v8hed UPDATE...

Spoke to Melling tech support and the guy there said some jerkiness in the shaft is normal. He said it was more common when using a heavier oil (like a 20w/50), but the Select series have CNC housings and run tighter clearances than the lower-end pumps. I explained to him the pump was building pressure fine with the prime tool and I had tried filling the old 10550 HV pump with oil and the shaft on that turns in jerky 'steps' when full of oil, too. He said he wouldn't worry about it and it all sounds reasonably normal.

So, there you go... it's normal for the pump to feel notchy when it's actually pumping oil. If you think about how the pump works, it makes sense... the meshing of the gears causes a vacuum and oil gets drawn into the voids created. As the gears mesh further, the oil gets squeezed out of the outlet and fresh oil gets pulled in to replace it. It's not a continuous flow arrangement, so the jerky movement would correlate to the way the pump works. BBC pumps have more gear teeth, so I bet they run smoother.
04-14-2012 05:43 PM
SSedan64 X2^^, should be smooth.
A few Pump Mods you can do if interested:
http://www.chevytech.info/2c63.html
04-14-2012 03:12 PM
larrywalk It's not normal. Time to replace the pump.
04-14-2012 01:39 PM
v8hed UPDATE...

Dropped the pan and pulled the pump.

Turned the pump shaft with it off the motor while it still had some oil in it and it felt horrible... not smooth at all and turning in really jerky steps. Emptied the oil out and now it feels smooth again when I just spin the shaft with my fingers.

I pulled the pump cover and inspected the gears... there's no damage, but I can see shiny and dull patches on each gear where they've been meshing. The black idler gear has some of the black coating partially worn away from this. Also, the gears have worn a few shiny patches on the inside of the housing, but nothing you can feel with your finger.

Does this all sound normal?

It's amazing how much difference there is in the smoothness of the pump between it being empty and it being full of oil.... perfectly smooth when empty and notchy as hell when there's oil in there.

At least this hasn't been a complete waste of time, as I discovered the front and rear seals were weeping, so I'll replace the gasket when I reassemble.
04-05-2012 07:46 PM
larrywalk When in doubt, pull the pan and pump; disassemble the pump and inspect the two gears for any evidence of debris passing between the gears. If there has been, you will see small gouges left by the debris. Hope you don't find any!

Another item if you have a 400 SBC is that the 400 takes a necked-down oil pump drive shaft to avoid rubbing on the rear main bearing cap.
04-05-2012 06:43 PM
v8hed I think I might know what's causing the problem...

I'm using ARP mains studs and the oil pump housing needs grinding to clear the stud adjacent to the pump on the rear main cap. I thought I had clearanced the housing sufficiently, using the pump I removed as a template to work to. Unfortunately, it's virtually impossible to get eyes on the stud/pump relationship with the engine in the car and working under the car on axle stands. I tried as best I could to inspect this area with an articulated inspection mirror and a bright light and I thought it looked OK. However, I now have a theory that the pump housing is hung-up ever so slightly on the stud as perhaps I didn't quite remove enough material from the housing when I clearanced it. This would cause the oil pump drive stub to be at a v.slight angle relative to the oil pump prime tool. Under load, this slight (probably only 1* or less) angle would show-up as vibration through the prime tool into the drill.

The only problem with this theory is I can't figure-out how that could cause the pump to feel very notchy/jerky when simply turning it slowly by hand with a screwdriver. Perhaps interference between the drive shaft collar and the oil pump drive stub, since the collar is a fairly snug fit? Although I can't think of anything (without the distributor installed) that would constrain the oil pump drive shaft in a dead straight line.

I'll drop the pan again and see what I can see (damn PITA).
04-05-2012 04:46 PM
oldbogie
Quote:
Originally Posted by v8hed
Really? Interesting. Unfortunately, my only frame of reference was an old oil pump with a few thousand miles on it... that turned smooth as silk, hence my concern when this new pump wasn't the same way.

Before this new pump was installed, the gears turned perfectly smoothly (of course, it wasn't working against oil pressure).

With a long screwdriver turning the oil pump drive shaft by hand, I can distinctly feel some pretty bad 'notchiness' in the pump drive as I turn it slowly with the screwdriver. The noise might be simply because the drill is turning this notchy/jerky drive shaft at a couple of thousand RPM and is causing a lot of vibration through the drive shaft and drill. It really doesn't feel right, but this is the first new pump I've installed and primed.

Anyone else with a few new oil pump installs under their belts care to comment? I'll tear everything down again if I have to, but it's a major PITA and I'm not keen to do all that when this might be perfectly OK.

Do oil pump gears 'wear-in' to each other in a short amount of time? Is there some kind of bedding-in that happens?

f
It should turn smoothly from the get go.

Bogie
04-04-2012 08:58 PM
Richiehd
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richiehd
so go buy another pump and try it with the screwdriver.
or like this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3qsQ...429yFWv7pvM%3D
04-04-2012 08:54 PM
Richiehd
Quote:
Originally Posted by v8hed
The collar on the prime tool limits the engagement depth (I think), so the weight above that should be a non-issue? I just tried again taking the weight of the drill and it's exactly the same. As I said, the pump drive shaft is jerky when turning it by hand with a screwdriver.
so go buy another pump and try it with the screwdriver.
04-04-2012 06:15 PM
v8hed
Quote:
Originally Posted by ssmonty
The weight of the drill is too much pressure.
ssmonty
The collar on the prime tool limits the engagement depth (I think), so the weight above that should be a non-issue? I just tried again taking the weight of the drill and it's exactly the same. As I said, the pump drive shaft is jerky when turning it by hand with a screwdriver.
04-04-2012 06:03 PM
ssmonty The weight of the drill is too much pressure.
ssmonty
04-04-2012 05:56 PM
v8hed
Quote:
Originally Posted by ssmonty
Are you pushing down towards the pump with the drill? There shouldn't be any downward force applied to the oil pump shaft, or the gear attached to it will be forced into the oil pump cover and drag/bind.
Also the engaugement between the priming tool and the pump shaft is not exactly a precise fit that may create some clatter/vibration.
FWIW
ssmonty
Not pushing down... just the weight of the drill. The priming tool is the type with the valley collar, which I believe would prevent any undue downward pressure on the drive shaft. The drive shaft does not turn smoothly... if I stick a screwdriver on it and turn it slowly by hand, I can feel the shaft kinda jerking in steps rather than being buttery smooth. No other symptoms. I'm starting to think maybe it's normal, but I was just expecting the shaft to turn smoothly.
04-04-2012 05:50 PM
ssmonty Are you pushing down towards the pump with the drill? There shouldn't be any downward force applied to the oil pump shaft, or the gear attached to it will be forced into the oil pump cover and drag/bind.
Also the engaugement between the priming tool and the pump shaft is not exactly a precise fit that may create some clatter/vibration.
I'm sure youve seen/heard of spacer/washers that are installed between the intake manifold and the distributor collar to make sure when the distributor is tightened that it is not binding the pump. You can tell its not binding if you can insert the distributor without a washer and the collar sits all the way down on the intake. If it doesn't sit flush on the intake you can use a feeler gauge to measure seperation and install a washer thats about .050" thicker.
IMHO/FWIW
ssmonty
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