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Topic Review (Newest First)
06-25-2012 04:53 AM
67Mustang Al. [QUOTE=timothale]I saved them 250 K a year in painting tutone trucks, I did buy an executive lease return, not exactley what I wanted but 6 K miles, I paid 5500 , the sticker was 9200. My brother stayed 32 years, He got me my present F 350 4 X 4 My New cost was less than the dealer cost. I was at ford during the Pinto fire problem, The bean counters calculaated the lawsuit costs vs the repair cost , the decision was to let them burn, it's cheaper. I demonstrated how C 6's in big cars and trucks could " JUMP " into reverse, a couple deaths, I was told to be quiet, a decal was put on the visor saying to shut off the engine, set the E brake before exiting the vehicle, satified the govt.[/QUOTE
Hi Tim.
i was reading a post on a guy who had problems with a neutral safety switch and i found his comments on the transmission interesting. Thought you may want to read this for your information. Especially the part where he says it sliipped into reverse



" I am having an issue with my 1968 Ranchero 500 (c4 auto, column selector). The neutral safety switch has been flakey for a while (pull the column selector forward while in park or joggle it in the right position when in neutral), but it seems to have finally failed completely.

OK, that was great, found it. Exactly as shown by 72GTVA and Fomoco8 and described by burninbush. THANKS!!!

Now, I agree with someone (don't see the post here now for some reason) who said that the worn out and therefor sloppy shift selector mechanism was probably more to blame than the switch itself. The selector is so sloppy, it has slipped in to reverse from park on me before!!

That being the likely case, isn't it true that installing an aftermarket floor shifter, like a Hurst Quarter Stick, is the answer to all my problems here? And, is a Quarter Stick a good "economy" choice (on a budget here...)? I don't know what all is out there, or how they compare to each other in the price-performance arena. Oh, and how do I tell if I have a Forward or Reverse Valve Body?

Thanks again! "
06-14-2012 04:05 AM
67Mustang Al.
Quote:
Originally Posted by timothale
I have worked at a few companies that have lost a lot of money, or shut down because of stupid decisions and polices from the newly hired business experts. And product designers that said that the Mustang that had the apx 2 x 8 brushed aluminum panel in the instrument panel could not have any exposed screws, even though the gage cluster right next to it had 6 exposed screws. I said if a potential buyer saw 2 screws would he rush to the chevy dealer to buy a camero, the designer said no screws, He was GOD. The panel was held on with 2 nuts on the back side studs, An in-factory repair of other problems required 3 hours because of no easy access. For our repairs the tech would break the panel, do the repair in 15 minutes, install a couple tinnerman J clips, then install and new panel we had drilled and countersunk the holes and used the same screws as the gage cluster.
Hi Tim.
I can see how the detents are spaced on the Chev example. That makes sense but Ford closing the spacing with the consequences of jumping into reverse, and leaving it , until the secret fix crept into the production line, that is criminal. How many c6 trans are still out there circulating. You would never hear of "incidents' as cars dont just jump into reverse.
I looked at the detent spacing on the C4 and between P, R,N D 2 1 it seems fairly even.
Exposed screws are not a problem for most but when the designers cannot be swayed i guess you're stumped. There are only three black screws visible from the driver eye's in my Mustang and i dont think that would have sent me down the road to buy another car. I think there are a couple more black self tappers to the right of the glove box. What a designers nightmare
For me the body shape from the profiled door to the rear guard extensions are the highlight of the 67 coupe.
Cheers
Al.
06-13-2012 09:24 AM
timothale
harvard MBA's and accounts

I have worked at a few companies that have lost a lot of money, or shut down because of stupid decisions and polices from the newly hired business experts. And product designers that said that the Mustang that had the apx 2 x 8 brushed aluminum panel in the instrument panel could not have any exposed screws, even though the gage cluster right next to it had 6 exposed screws. I said if a potential buyer saw 2 screws would he rush to the chevy dealer to buy a camero, the designer said no screws, He was GOD. The panel was held on with 2 nuts on the back side studs, An in-factory repair of other problems required 3 hours because of no easy access. For our repairs the tech would break the panel, do the repair in 15 minutes, install a couple tinnerman J clips, then install and new panel we had drilled and countersunk the holes and used the same screws as the gage cluster.
06-13-2012 09:19 AM
timothale
C 6 probem

On the early C6 transmissions there was not enough space between R and P. On a GM transmission , to illustrate hold your hand out and spread your fingers. the space between your thumb and index finger is how the GM shift detents were designed.(Ford later copied the GM spacing ) On a GM trans when you moved the column lever from R toward to P the pawl locked the output shaft and the hyd valve was still in reverse, if you accelerated the engine the vehicle would not move because the pawl was locked. move farther toward P and the valve shifted into Neutral and engine RPM dropped . , and you would lock the column lever in the park detent. ON The Ford the R and P were too close together, because of manufacturing tollerence-design the hyd valve would shift into neutral before the pawl locked the output shaft or the column locked the shift lever. The engine RPM would DROP an the driver would THINK he was in park. Bump the steering wheel, get out and grab the steering wheel, there was enough movement that linkage would move back into reverse and people got backed over. I demonstrated that on several trucks just off the end of the assembly line and was told to be Quiet !!
06-13-2012 05:09 AM
67Mustang Al.
Quote:
Originally Posted by timothale
I saved them 250 K a year in painting tutone trucks, I did buy an executive lease return, not exactley what I wanted but 6 K miles, I paid 5500 , the sticker was 9200. My brother stayed 32 years, He got me my present F 350 4 X 4 My New cost was less than the dealer cost. I was at ford during the Pinto fire problem, The bean counters calculaated the lawsuit costs vs the repair cost , the decision was to let them burn, it's cheaper. I demonstrated how C 6's in big cars and trucks could " JUMP " into reverse, a couple deaths, I was told to be quiet, a decal was put on the visor saying to shut off the engine, set the E brake before exiting the vehicle, satified the govt.
Well Tim i guess from what you are saying here is that the Ford heirarchy there dont get Christmas cards from you. Good to have a brother that helps out the cash flow. We have some F350 's here that builders use. I think they are powered by v8 diesels.They sure sound like it.
The C6 issue sounds bad Tim. Manufacturers now recall cars for sticky accelerators, and other minor things but to let a trans progress down the line knowing the consequences is prison time.I am glad my Mustang has a C4. Dont bean counters give you the sh--s. Our factory was eventually taken over by the accountant.
06-12-2012 02:36 PM
timothale
4 X 4

I saved them 250 K a year in painting tutone trucks, I did buy an executive lease return, not exactley what I wanted but 6 K miles, I paid 5500 , the sticker was 9200. My brother stayed 32 years, He got me my present F 350 4 X 4 My New cost was less than the dealer cost. I was at ford during the Pinto fire problem, The bean counters calculaated the lawsuit costs vs the repair cost , the decision was to let them burn, it's cheaper. I demonstrated how C 6's in big cars and trucks could " JUMP " into reverse, a couple deaths, I was told to be quiet, a decal was put on the visor saying to shut off the engine, set the E brake before exiting the vehicle, satified the govt.
06-12-2012 07:23 AM
67Mustang Al.
Quote:
Originally Posted by timothale
One of the Engineers in our office was awarded a new mustang for proposing Ford put more gas in the new cars, ( Invoiced at higher retail price on the window sticker ) The profit margin was 3 times higher on gasoline than it was on the cars. Two years later when truck fuel systems had to meet new safety roll over standards it was harder to get enough fuel in trucks he revised the fuel fill nozzel to a smaller size and 4 ft of clear tubing so the fuel was dumped in the bottom of the tank and the air could escape without sloshing ruel out, another new mustang. The paperwork was in to give me a new truck but I filed a workers compensation claim before i got the keys in my hand, Ford was in violation of air standards inside the factory and half of my techs and myself were having health problems.
Hi Tim
Missing out on a new Ford Tim would not have been be putting a smile on your face at the time. Bad air is another issue. Hope you still have a good set of lungs.Sounds as if toxic fumes at that time were not worried about as long as the production line rolled along meeting quotas Fumes drove my buddy from his bodyworks who now runs his own heat pump business. I recall the plating baths in our factory which electroplated flash coatings on the rod and mains caused health issue concerns for the employees. They were "lead" baths. Sounds as if the "ideas men" were spoilt or rewarded well for their ideas in the US. What sort of truck would it have been Tim?
Al
06-12-2012 06:04 AM
timothale
mustang 3 gallons,

One of the Engineers in our office was awarded a new mustang for proposing Ford put more gas in the new cars, ( Invoiced at higher retail price on the window sticker ) The profit margin was 3 times higher on gasoline than it was on the cars. Two years later when truck fuel systems had to meet new safety roll over standards it was harder to get enough fuel in trucks he revised the fuel fill nozzel to a smaller size and 4 ft of clear tubing so the fuel was dumped in the bottom of the tank and the air could escape without sloshing ruel out, another new mustang. The paperwork was in to give me a new truck but I filed a workers compensation claim before i got the keys in my hand, Ford was in violation of air standards inside the factory and half of my techs and myself were having health problems.
06-09-2012 01:55 AM
67Mustang Al.
The fix for 67 wind whistle........

Hi Tim and boothboy.
Well my daughter sat in the back seat while i drove at about 70kph ( whistling speed) With the funnel and hose she was able to pinpoint the wind noise to the front lower intersection between the quarter vent frame and body seal. I put some tape in the door at the top of the vent frame and shut the door on it to see how much bite there was . Plenty at the top but none at the bottom as in the pics.
When the door closes on the seal it just pushes the seal further in without any crush. By putting a piece of 1/4 inch rubber tube used for windscreen squirters in behind the seal it fixed the problem. No more whislte. I will glue it on the back now with some instant loctite . Problem solved.
I can see if the seal had been made out of round section, rather than the oval section there would be positive crush between the door and body seal.
I guess that s why you have the Tims of the production line world to sign off on improvements on the next model.
Thanks for your input to solve this annoying problem.
Al
06-08-2012 07:44 AM
67Mustang Al.
very used and abused mustang

No wonder it looked tired when i bought it. If it left the factory with an extra 3 or 4 thousand miles on it and then someone "wound it forward" it probably was heading for the crusher before it was run in.
06-08-2012 07:13 AM
boothboy Yep that's how we got them. Three miles and three gal. of gas. We use to do the same thing with the salesman's demo's. I re-set a lot of odometers back then. But on the other hand i re-set a number of odometer forward on used Mustangs so the could run them as leaders and no one would want them . They sold right off anyway. Those were the days.
06-07-2012 10:28 PM
timothale
R vin mustangs

Most of the time we build the mustangs at san jose we were 18 to 20 % below the buget cost and had the lowest dealer charge back, XR 7 cougars were a nightmare to build. Qc did not enforce the paint thickness spec on cars with vinyl tops, and the production manager had the crew do too much grinding on the 2 dr hardtops quarter roof joints. I have never heard of anyone having one of the show car specials they were eventuall sold to a retail customer. . the entire body had a class one metal finish and they were displayed with the doors open so all the visible body seams were leaded over and as smooth as the exterior. One scam Ford did was allow the district sales staff to pull a new car off the assembly line , disconnect the spedo and set up a dummy spedo on the floor and drive them for 3 or 4 thousand miles, change the oil and filter , then reconnect the spedo showing 3 miles and send the car to the dealer.
06-07-2012 08:26 PM
boothboy
Quote:
Originally Posted by timothale
We built mustangs, then Fairlane mixed in then pinto and mustang II , and I had pickups for a while. Never any big cars after falcolns I wrote so many problem reports on one designer he almost got fired, Ford still uses the truck jack handle hold down bolt I designed in 1979 , dog point , included washer and wing top that could be tightened on the assembly line with and air tool. Sometimes we just ignored the designers and did thing our own way. The Mustang tailight wiring harness 14405 was folded up and shipped to us, when installed in a mustang it would catch on the Qtr window and short out, We installed a truck clip to hold it in place but the bean counters said we were spending 3 cents more that was not authorized, They spent a hundred thousand in dealer repairs before they said we were right.
Yeah I remember. The full size cars were built in Pico Revera ( Los Angeles ).
Truthfully the early Mustangs came through pretty darn good. You did a good job. I think I still have a couple of those rear hold down shipping plates someplace. I know I still have a drawer full of tire caps. Take offs after you installed the wheel covers. Wheel covers , kick panels and front carpets came in the trunks. Radio antennas also if the car came with a radio.

Al try the trick with the heater hose. It really works well.
06-07-2012 06:48 PM
timothale
Not Me

We built mustangs, then Fairlane mixed in then pinto and mustang II , and I had pickups for a while. Never any big cars after falcolns I wrote so many problem reports on one designer he almost got fired, Ford still uses the truck jack handle hold down bolt I designed in 1979 , dog point , included washer and wing top that could be tightened on the assembly line with and air tool. Sometimes we just ignored the designers and did thing our own way. The Mustang tailight wiring harness 14405 was folded up and shipped to us, when installed in a mustang it would catch on the Qtr window and short out, We installed a truck clip to hold it in place but the bean counters said we were spending 3 cents more that was not authorized, They spent a hundred thousand in dealer repairs before they said we were right.
06-07-2012 06:38 PM
67Mustang Al.
pool of knowledge

Thanks for your reply boothboy. Between you and Tim with the amount of experience you have dealing with production line "upgrades" i most certainly will have to fix this problem. Getting someone else to drive the car is a problem as they are too scared to drive a left hand drive car. which leaves me.
I will try some blu tak and pack out the window weather strip . I am trying to see any differences between the LHS and RHS window seals/fit but to look at they are identical. Two vent windows , one whistle. May have to tie some heater hose to my left ear and go for a drive.
Al.
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