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Topic Review (Newest First)
07-14-2012 07:22 AM
Irelands child Your info shows that you are from Mass. It's a rust belt state!!! The Mass Tpk as well as Interstates 95. 295 and 495 turn WHITE after a single snowflake has fallen. The non-interstate highways and roads are worse - plus it is always there 24/7/365 embedded in the road materials. You have seen, as noted earlier, the tip of the iceberg with other places on that car starting to succumb to rot. If you really like the car, want to keep it for years, then it needs to have a full, including the undersides, checked for advanced rot. Then decide if it's worth a full rehab or, just go enjoy yourself with a fun car.

To respond to your original question - ANY rattle can silver will never be a good choice. The original has faded, the shiny new paint will stick out like that proverbial sore thumb and even worse the the rusty spots. Then to make it even worse, the European paints have been attacked by the ecology people in CE and the European Union - and is IMHO, a 'poor' paint to begin with.
07-13-2012 10:38 PM
deadbodyman
Quote:
Originally Posted by MARTINSR View Post
"Do it right or go home", that is most certainly not this pro! I can take short cuts with the best of them, as well as do main arena prestigious car show kinda work. My concern here is the old question "To what end". What are the odds of success? Be it me, or someone who has never touched a piece of sand paper in their life, often those odds are the same in the end.

I am all for doing anything you want to dive into this incredible hobby or industry. I have spent a ton of my own time writing articles and answering questions because I REALLY want to help those who are just dabbling in this work to do better, to demystify, to help in anyway to get some guy who has never done it to do it and be proud. I am all for that, in a big way. But I also have to do my warnings so as those same people don't bite off their tongue in the process.

This is just one of those warnings. That is all I will say on the subject.

Brian
same here,just not with rattle cans if you cant afford the proper equipment even entry level ,starting with the compressor then dont start I've been there and see that stuff on the road everyday ....BUT that IS how I started out ...I couldnt afford a compressor at 14 so I built one ...something else I knew nothing about ....Just trying to save a few guys all the heartache of seeing your hard work go to crao because they didnt know any better ...I still build my own compressors and never bought a new one in my 35yrs of doing this work...I made so many mistakes I actually know what I'm doingand can rebuild any compressor even a worm drive....Its not because I'm the original cheepass but I just gotta know how things work....It all comes at a cost ,being like that and theres no reason anybody else needs to go through all that with this computor at your finger tips ...wait till I show you my gun washer I'm building for twenty bucks ...even I'm impressed with how well it works and I'm not even done yet....You gotta have a compressor though ....
07-11-2012 09:42 PM
deadbodyman
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaw550 View Post
Here are a couple of pictures. There are a couple of small bubbles at 12:00 and a larger section at 3:00 (that extends under the gray plastic trim)
I posted before The pics showed up,sorry...
Kaw ,That aint so bad and your on the right track dont worry about blending the paint....pinstripe it and get some chroma base or some other good paint if you can afford it (better color match) If not,Omini PLUS (PPG) is pretty good with a match and its about 30-40.00 a quart for silver(waaaaay cheaper than chroma base)... maybe a pint of paint and some reducer .and a quart of clear maybe some omini Quick clear with a fast hardner at 50.00 (drys fast ,less trash) if you've painted before and have a gun you must have a compressor so your way ahead of a first timer that thinks everything is easy and we just rip people off ...
I use Oshho to remove rust its much better than rust mort and costs about 15-20.00 a quart and you wont even use an 1/8th of of it...
07-11-2012 09:41 PM
studeelover I think he should be encouraged to try the repair. If it isn't as good as most of you can do it, he can try again.

The value of a 2003 in my area........perfect to learn on.
07-11-2012 09:07 PM
deadbodyman
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaw550 View Post
I wouldnt necessarly consider myself a "cheapass".
It is our fouth car and as I mentioned in the first post, it is a summer toy.
I have the tools (although my paint gun is from HF) and a little experience but i know my limitations. Fading in silver is more than likely beyond my expertise.

If i could get a paint match out if a can it would remove a lot of variables. Thats what i was questioning.

We still have room in the budget to have it repaired but i was hoping to have it done for $500 to $1000.
I was hoping you didnt take it that way ,it wasnt directed at you or anyone else for that matter but I did hit the quote button and was trying to address a few questions by you and a few other people without hitting the qoute button for every every ones question...plus address a bunch of people form the past at the same time were that way so they knew we're not here for those kinds ...
Rule # 2....the cost ..
..If your doing this because you love that dang car NEVER include ANY of the hours of labor it takes in the total cost of completion....and whatever you figure the parts and materials will be......triple it .you'll be pretty close (if you do your homework)..AND...have a secret hotrod accont your wife dosent know about .and when your she asks how much you spent on that part that came UPS deduct 2/3's and be prepared for the fallout....
If its her car and shes all in dont worry about it but women like that and ones that actually help are an urban legon as far as I know...
Secret Hotrod account ,thats the ticket...
07-11-2012 08:35 PM
MARTINSR Oops, I said some more didn't I.

Brian
07-11-2012 08:34 PM
MARTINSR Well my point is, I WILL take some short cuts, this wouldn't be one. Not because I wouldn't fill that rust with bondo, but because it wouldn't last so I would be wasting my time. I WILL take a short cut, if it doesn't look that great, that is my business, you know what I mean? If I want to look at a big brush touched chip in the door of my car instead of fixing it right that is up to me, it's my car. But I wouldn't take the time to fill the rust in the door of my car with bondo and paint it because it would be wasted time, it would fail way too soon for my liking. If it would last years, I may just think about it, but by the odds it wouldn't, it wouldn't last but a few months before it started failing. That is simply not a good enough end result for my hard work be it a short cut or not. I have done some awful funky stuff on my own cars, if nothing else as a test bed.

Heck, in my Rambler it had a floor on the drivers side that looked like a sieve. A large area under the clutch and brake pedals was pretty funky like a friggin window screen. I sand blasted it, epoxy primed it with a brush and covered it with fiberglass cloth and resin then epoxy primed over that. That was certainly hack compared to the right way, but I figured in this old car (not like it's a show car) AND as a little test bed (and I am keeping an eye on it) I figured what the heck, I wouldn't have to mask the inside for painting, I wouldn't have to worry about welding in there with all the upholstery and carpet. I did a heck of a short cut, but with the educated guesstimate that it would last a long time and I still believe it will.

So there are times when you can do a quickie, it CAN work out well. I just don't think the benefits will out weigh the work, time and money to do this Saab anywhere less than right. And the thing about this is, I am not even sure it's worth it to do it right! If the whole car is full of rust, drive it and enjoy it and forgetaboutit.

Brian
07-11-2012 06:44 PM
jsm1847 Brian, I'm sure your short cuts wouldn't have you bondo ing over rust. I guess unless your customer wanted it. That's my point. You (and me for that matter) will do things the right way, or we usually won't do it. Just pointing out that he CAN do that if he wants, then paint and blend. It wasn't meant as an insult. I know you always give great advice, even to me ")
07-11-2012 06:27 PM
MARTINSR "Do it right or go home", that is most certainly not this pro! I can take short cuts with the best of them, as well as do main arena prestigious car show kinda work. My concern here is the old question "To what end". What are the odds of success? Be it me, or someone who has never touched a piece of sand paper in their life, often those odds are the same in the end.

I am all for doing anything you want to dive into this incredible hobby or industry. I have spent a ton of my own time writing articles and answering questions because I REALLY want to help those who are just dabbling in this work to do better, to demystify, to help in anyway to get some guy who has never done it to do it and be proud. I am all for that, in a big way. But I also have to do my warnings so as those same people don't bite off their tongue in the process.

This is just one of those warnings. That is all I will say on the subject.

Brian
07-11-2012 05:24 PM
jsm1847 Listen man,
These gents are pros in the body shop dept. Don't take their harsh words too hard..... They are like alot of professionals- do it right or go home.
With that being said, I think you could do a decent patch/hack job of that rear panel, considering that you are doing just that. Considering you don't care the rust is there, and you just want it covered, it can be done fairly easy. It may or may not come out good, but you know that going in. I personally don't like patching over rust because it comes back up. The problem doesn't go away. You can't try to stop the rust, but that will depend on you.
A harbor freight HVLP will work fine. Not the best gun in the world, but folks use them all the time and get good results. You said you painted a couple cars before...
It is possible to blend a very small area. Hard, but possible. If you're gonna try, have your paint store match the color. Then try and blend color out on a body curve or edge. And reduce color each time you go out.
07-11-2012 10:02 AM
MARTINSR I have a different look at things, make repairs where the odds of it being repaired is better than what you have, this is not the case. If you were a pro and could wham bam done kick it's butt, it may make sense but to try your first hand at blending and such, it won't look any better than it does now, only "different". That's what I always will tell customers who want to patch something or brush touch or something like that. It will simply look "different", not "gone". It may be a better "different" but it will NOT be fixed, and invisible.

If this car was from my area in sunny California there is a remote chance that the rust is localized to this area. Just the fact that it is over the whole wheel well pretty much blows that idea. This car has lived somewhere that rust is the norm, not the exception like here. My family's last "family truckster" (96 Windstar) had rust under it like this, severe surface rusted suspension components, rust at the pinch welds, that sort of thing. It was not from around here, that was clear. I got it for a good price and drove it just about 85K miles going to 29 of the states in these United States of America. It worked just fine never having touched that rust. COULD I have "repaired" it all, I guess so but the odds were that it wouldn't make one ant hill of difference so I chose to leave it and saved myself a lot of work and money and simply enjoyed the van.

The rust I am seeing on the Saab is pretty clearly just the tip of the iceburg. Right now you have color that matches, and a wife that doesn't see the flaw.

You try to learn on this car, you are in for some heartache. The learning curve on this one is steep, it isn't a little door ding in the middle of a panel, this baby is a toughie. Like I said, this rust is coming from the inside out, do we think for some reason this is the only rust on the car? Nope, if you don't see it, it IS under every panel on the car working on breaking thru just as this area did. So why fix this when first, it WILL fail very quickly being you aren't going to repair it right by replacing all that rusted metal, and two because it WILL be rusting thru somewhere else in the future, to what end is the question, a full ground up restoration?

The rust won't be "Gone" it will be hidden for a while is all you get from all your hard work. I am sorry, I have been in this business decades and in those decades I have learned that not every repair is worth it there are times when it is simply BEST to leave it. This APPEARS from what I see in these two photos not worth it. If this is very localized and there is no other rust on the car after a thorough inspection of the car then sure it would be a good idea maybe to fix it, but I don't believe this will be the case.


Brian
07-11-2012 09:27 AM
studeelover
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaw550 View Post
Fading in silver is more than likely beyond my expertise.
It could be for a lot of us.

Take charge, start your leaning curve, try it now. It isn't as difficult as you think. Use what you have.

It will look better than when you started; the rust is gone.

If you keep this car, you may eventually want to repaint the entire car.
07-11-2012 08:17 AM
MARTINSR Ok, here is the cold hard facts for you from the mind of MARTINSR.

That rust is the tip of the iceburg and will require MUCH more than "store made spray paint" to fix. The magic words are "My wife doesn't even see it", let her drive the car with a smile on her face and forget about it. Not unless you want a major project that is going to require proper tools and time to do it right.

You want to think about doing this thing right, the first thing you need to do is get the car up in the air and look at the pinch welds around both wheel arches and the bottoms of the quarters and rockers. The rockers will likely be hidden by mouldings. But get a good look around and see if this is the ONLY rust like that on the car, my bet is it isn't. If you find this stuff all over, for goodness sakes forget about it! Let her drive it with a smile on her face and forget about it!

Brian
07-11-2012 07:52 AM
kaw550 I wouldnt necessarly consider myself a "cheapass".
It is our fouth car and as I mentioned in the first post, it is a summer toy.
I have the tools (although my paint gun is from HF) and a little experience but i know my limitations. Fading in silver is more than likely beyond my expertise.

If i could get a paint match out if a can it would remove a lot of variables. Thats what i was questioning.

We still have room in the budget to have it repaired but i was hoping to have it done for $500 to $1000.
07-11-2012 05:52 AM
deadbodyman
Quote:
Originally Posted by studeelover View Post
I have a similar situation with my vehicle. It is a 2003, with a few small rust bubbles under the paint around both rear wheel wells. I have 2 repair estimates, $1700. and $1100.

Forget it.

I'll sand the area, Mig any pinholes, rustmort, prime and touch up with the touchup gun.

It's a ten year old car, not a show car, and if it is visible after buffing, it's better than rust.

You should be able to get rattle cans with your color from an auto supply retailer.
Even if this kind of work is only a hobby that you enjoy doing the first thing you need is a compressor...if its not something you enjoy and are just too cheap to pay anyone you'll find out fast why its so expensive...once you find out how much the REAL paint costs you'll probably run down to the dollar store and buy something totally wrong and create an eye sore that shows the world just how cheap and untalented you are...Thats why she wants you to just leave it alone, she'll be too embaressesed to drive the car so just leave the rust alone ,dont draw attention to it..
.lets say your a talented and handy kind of guy that enjoys this kind of work and just have a lack of funds...Not just a cheepass that has no respect for anyones work but the work YOU do (like a politition) and you want to learn something..there IS a way you can do it ,it wont be very good but at least the color will be a closer match....You can go to an auto paint store with your paint code and have them mix some proper paint for you ...To apply the paint there are Co2 paint guns for touch up ,you put the paint in the bottom and like a rattle can push the top, it wont do a great job but it
ll be the best way to do it without a compressor and a paint gun....at the top of the 1/4 put a pinstripe and paint up to it so you dont have to blend the paint....
.....
Do your wife a favor LEAVE IT ALONE or break down and pay someone to do it right , OR buy some ( entry level ) equipment and enjoy this as a hobby and screw around with your own car.
A quart of paint even the cheapest low end auto paint will cost 50.00 ... you can get an entry level compressor and a paint gun new for about 200.00 at one of these chinese stores.it wont be a good one and it wont last long but it'll get the job done....
A 1000 - 1500.00 is cheap though at a body shop it takes a lot of talent even to get a passable job ...At my shop it would be a min. of 3500.00 for two 1/4s...If your too cheep or cant afford to spend a little on making your wife happy....You can always bring it to Maaco...at least they can do it for the price of the tools and materials you would spend and if they screw it up at least they'll screw it up FAST and she wont be driving around in rattle can primer spots for the rest of the cars shortend life....
This site is where Hot rodders and hobbiests (even pros) come to learn and better their talents and meet other guys with like intrests and the mere mention of rattle can work is disrespectful and has no place here ......
lesson #1
Now,If you have a genuine intrest in the work we'll help you all we can to do a fairly decent DIY job but first you have to have some tools not just an orbital sander and a drill......lesson #2
......
RULE # 1 Buying a car....
You find a car that you like the looks of but it needs some work..First,get a pro to look at it and give an estimate of what it would cost to do the repairs...Take the price of the car add the repairs to the cost then look up the value of the car...If the total exceeds the value dont buy it...I (try) only buy cars that are worth double what the repaired total costs are... Theres no sence wasting all that money and time on something with no return,even if you love doing the work...
Class dismissed.....dont forget to do your homework...
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