Hot Rod Forum banner

Ok, a few more stupid questions about this top.

33K views 174 replies 8 participants last post by  John long 
#1 ·
I see in the GM assembly manual these things called "fillers". Over at the Goodguys I was able to see down into this area on a car and it looked like there were some dense foam pads at this spot. Is that all these "Filler" amount to, sort of a pad where the tack ("trim") strip screws to the body?



Next, it shows this measurement for the rear bow. It's extremely clear, 17 and 5/8 inches from the inside of the rolled edge on the rear bow to the center of the next bow. This is perfectly clear, make a stick that goes here to hold it and done deal, put the rear curtain in. That's how I see it at least.



But then they give this very elaborate directions for making a stick that would go there and it's adjustable! Why the heck would it need to be adjustable if this measurement is so defined and clear?



Thanks, Brian
 
See less See more
3
#102 ·
Dan, you know me all too well. Ok, a story, you know you have to put up with a story when it comes to me. I was just trying to make a living with my little body shop and it wasn't easy being I am a horrible businessman. Anyway one day I was buffing out a car with my beautiful new expensive buffer and it stopped working. They had a recall sort of issue with the switch that they already had replaced for free. This cost me time and money and I was finally back to getting some work done. So there I am buffing when it stops, the damn thing stopped again! In my fit of anger (and I NEVER do this sort of stupid thing, mostly just yell obscenities) I turned around and BEAT it against the concrete wall that was next to me. Just one time, but during the swing in that direction I saw my heat lamp across the shop was out! I knew what this meant, a tripped breaker, but I couldn't stop my swing, it was in motion and slammed the buffer into the wall. I went and flipped the breaker and walked back to pickup the buffer and hit the switch, aaggggggggg was all it did, I had bent the armature. What a moron.

Brian
 
#103 ·
Hey by the way I was asked on another thread about trimming off the extra stuff under the trim stick, there is no reason why you wouldn't do that right? It is hanging off down into the gutter I am thinking it should be cut off.

Brian
 
#104 ·
Sure you can do that. It really isn't visible, and I wouldn't do it until you are sure you don't need to do any more adjustments, but you can trim it off then.
 
#105 ·
After my re-adjusting the top pad after trimming it taught me a lesson. By the way, it isn't as perfect as it looks I did have to readjust the rear curtain up exposing a hole in the window above the trim stick! DARN IT, but I will be putting a small piece of thick clear plastic sticker over it to seal out any leaks. :D

Brian
 
#106 ·
Next stupid questions. :D

This strip of material that goes across the top at bow behind the header goes into that bow and held with that strip of metal. Just how much of that strip of material should be caught in that strip of metal? Are we talking it needs to be buried in it with the excess hanging out the front of the metal strip? Or is just a half inch or so enough which seems like it would be, that strip is pressed in there sucked by the screws and I think if the material is caught at the back side of the metal strip and bow it should be good enough.

It seems like there is a little conflict between having the top back enough to fit at the rear and side flaps at the back of the quarter windows and forward enough to get a good bite on that material under the metal strip on that second bow. Sorry for the crappy photo I didn't see how bad it was until just now.



And I know we mentioned the zipper and just letting it hang but it seems that driving with the windows down and top up these zippers would be blowing all over damaging things. How do you keep them from doing that? Should they be stapled to the side trim sticks?



Thanks for all your help! From what the side rear corners look like before I staple it to the trim stick, I am guessing I will have the trim sticks out and re-adjusting those pieces and re-stapling about 62 times, yeah, I am thinking 62 times. :drunk:

Brian
 
#107 ·
Don't staple the ends of the zipper down. The zipper is a separating zipper, which means it's just like the zipper in your jacket. You can cut off some of the excess zipper on the end that is the opposite side of where you start zipping. You will need to put some stops on each side of the zipper tape to keep the *********** from sliding off.

I can't tell what you're talking about in the first picture.
 
#108 ·
top

Not sure what you are saying but I'll guess. That metal strip slides into that material and then is screwed down if it is a loop shaped piece. That lets it move back and forth a little. I wouldn't cut the zipper. I don't think they cause a problem. Hope this is what you are asking.
 
#109 ·
Not sure what you are saying but I'll guess. That metal strip slides into that material and then is screwed down if it is a loop shaped piece. That lets it move back and forth a little. I wouldn't cut the zipper. I don't think they cause a problem. Hope this is what you are asking.
Ahhhhh it's a loop? I will have to pull up one side of the top to install it! Damn this is one of those mistakes that could really screw you up. Luckily I haven't stapled or anything, only the side cables are holding the top right now.

I remember my top in the car this was torn off when I bought it so I don't know anything about it. A couple of convertibles I have looked at the top must have been installed and they had an ahh hah moment when they found that the strip of metal couldn't be installed because the loop was too far away from the bow top install it!

I will re-examine tonight. Thanks!

Brian
 
#110 ·
Now I understand what you're talking about. It's supposed to be a pocket, and it should be no problem to push the metal strips in, no matter which stage you're at. You can always raise the top a little to put them in if you have to.
 
#111 ·
Ok the rear valance has a double layer, I would think this double layer should be up over the rear bow to staple it thru that double layer. But then at the same time this sewn area looks like it should be at the end of the bow stapled so it can be hidden under the moulding. But they aren't lined up so is it simply staple it on the sewn area and the double layer of the valance simply goes below the rear bow and is not stapled thru?


 
#112 ·
The double layer and that little seam at each end should be stapled to the rear bow, and then it will be covered by the wire-on. There will be little chrome tips to screw over the ends of the wire-on.
 
#113 ·
I understand that but unless I am crazy, I will carefully look this morning, it looks like the double layer doesn't go up as high as the seam on each end.

Brian
 
#114 ·
Well it's underway and not looking too good. It's looking a LOT better than I thought after pulling the trim stick out and repositioning the top about six or eight times. :mad: But It needs more and I am not certain if I will be able to get it much better, it seems kinda futile pulling it apart too many times more.

Brian

 
#116 ·
I'll get one, I don't think that has anything to do with my problems. I do have that wrinkly mess right where the seam is sown that I was talking about at the top where the wire-on ends at, it's like I am going to have to gather some material and staple a placenta to hide under the wire-on tip. I stopped that project at about 5 last night and went to a house party at my sister-in-laws. We had a good time and now I walk up this morning with my back aching. That climbing in and out of the trunk and passenger compartment twenty times yesterday kicked my butt!

Brian
 
#117 ·
I don't know much about tops but it looks to me like the dart sewn in the top should run to where the rear bow curves to go down. The top just doesn't look right to me. If that corner will not lay smooth, I don't see how the top can possibly go on wrinkle free. I know you have to be anxious for Dan to look at it.

John L
 
#118 ·
By the way I know understand the importance of that rear bow location! I couldn't understand why it was such a big deal, NOW I understand! I figured that bow goes up and down, the top will fold up and down no matter if that bow was an inch forward or back, what is the big deal I thought. But you have NO ROOM for error being that second to the front how holds that loop of cloth on the underside of the top that limits where that top can go, that and the flaps at the quarter window rails that top simply has to be put in one very narrow area, VERY narrow, you have no room for error. The location of rear bow to the second bow is what is most important. The rear bow height is going to fall into place but that darn distance between the second and the last bow has GOT TO BE right on. When I went back and found that one side was down a little I corrected it and boy o boy am I glad I did! That little seam at sewn into the top at the end of the rear upper valance wouldn't have been anywhere near that bow! I would have to put the wire on below it, man would that have looked like crap. Actually I would have pulled it all off and done it over. But yes that is very critical.

Brian
 
#119 ·
What does the opposite side look like? I assume it isn't as bad as the side pictured. It looks to me like the wrinkled side needs to be pulled tighter toward the front, but it's impossible to tell just from pictures.

Oh, BTW, that taking the trim stick off 8 times and trying again is why I don't staple the well on the back of the trim sticks. It just gets in the way. Is there a top installer anywhere near you, Brian? It may be worth your while to have a pro look at it.
 
#120 ·
I haven't done the header yet so I can pull it a little forward. But this doesn't seem to matter on that rear side. :(

The other side is about the same Dan. I will keep plugging at it. You know the well really doesn't seem to get in the way at all. I thought it would bit it is no big deal at all coming from inside the trunk at least. If you were trying to do it from the interior oh heck yeah, that would be a bear. But from the trunk it really is no big deal.

Brian
 
#121 ·
top

I think you are alright so far. Pull the back tight side to side and put a few staples in that seam. Make sure it is on tacking strip so it will be covered by wire-on. Don't staple any further then this area for now. Next go to the front. Raise front header up 6" or so, center material and put a few staples in each outer edge pull it snug but not too tight. Now carefully lower header making sure you don't pull out your staples or tear your material. Header should hang loose about an inch or so above windshield if not adjust front. I usually put a piece of foam or something between header and windshield for support. Now go to the back quarters and work the top forward and down on each side area at the rear bow. The area around rear quarter windows is one of the last things you do but you might need to clamp them in place while adjusting to get wrinkles out. Now you have to remove the bottom tack rail in and out about 50 more times to make adj. intil it's perfect or you get sick of it and call it good enough which ever comes first:spank: Hope this helps.
 
#123 ·
Hi Folks,

I've just read this entire thread and it has been a very helpful experience. I got here because I am redoing the top on a 71 Chevelle convertible and I ran into a problem.

Brian - just like you, I was confused about rear bow height. I measured mine 100 times and found out that mine is 1 inch off. :( It should be 20.5 inches, but it is 21.5 inches. This is both before and after taking off a working and fitting (but VERY dirty) top off. I still have the pads on so nothing's moved at this point. Take a look at the first picture to see the measurement...

Anyhow, I figured I would just "fix" that little problem. But then, I measured the "inter-bow" spacing. It is the spacing between the rear upper bow and the next bow forward. On my car, according to GM, it should be 18.5 inches. And it is!!! But only with the rear bow height set "wrong". :(:(:( Any before you ask, yes, the old top fit well and worked well - it was really badly stained by the previous owner, though.

So here's the question :confused: - Do I move the rear bow and mess up the inter-bow spacing? Or do I keep things the way they were and figure the previous top installer knew something I don't???

I'd really appreciate any help you guys have!
 

Attachments

#124 ·
Wait until others with real experience answer but I'll tell you what I think, that factory spacing to the second to the last bow is the most important measurement. Do you have the new top? Put your rear bows spacers like they have in the GM manual, measure it off perfectly and set it up like they want. Don't put the rear curtain on just yet, first lay the top over the irons and see how it fits up to the rails at the quarter windows. Now go under the and look at that loop of material that mounts the top to the second from the front bow. There is a piece of metal that is screwed to that second to the front bow. The strip of metal goes thru that loop of material and then you slip it into that bow and put the screws from underneath. If you removed the old top you know this of course. But check it out, when that top is in place like this your rear bow height should be right there under the seam on the ends of the rear valance. There is VERY little room for error. I couldn't understand why everyone was making such a big deal about that bow height. I just couldn't understand why if that bow was forward or rearward an inch or so what the big deal would be. LOL, HOLY COW was I wrong and found out real quick when I put that top on for the first time! The top doesn't have much movement, you are SCREWED if that bow is in the wrong place.

But lay it out, look at it, I don't understand why that bow height off the rear moulding is that big of a deal, the distance between the rear bow and the second to the last bow is REALLY where the rubber meets the road. THAT is your top, your irons, that rear bow distance to the second to the rear bow IS your top. That is where the top mounts and at the rear of the curtain to the body is darn near irrelevant. At least that's how I see it, but let some others give you their thoughts.

Brian
 
#125 · (Edited)
I see you're measuring with the rear curtain off. Did you measure the bow height of the old top before you took off the top and rear curtain? 20 1/2" is the correct bow height for your Chevelle, but if the old top fit correctly with the frame like it is now, leave the entire set-up alone. If the old pads are still good, just leave them alone also. Just make sure that the seam across the back of the top, if there is one, sits in the middle of the rear bow so it can be covered by the wire-on. In other words, don't change anything unless your new top doesn't fit with the old rear bow height.

Don't let the science of installing the top (the measurements) get in the way of the art of installing the top (adjusting the top to make it look good), and vice versa. Does that statement make any sense to you?
 
#126 ·
Hi Brian - thank you for the info. I think you might be right, judging by Dan's response. :)




Hi Dan - Thanks so much for the quick and clear response. Yes, I did measure it before I took the curtain or top off. I have a picture of that somewhere, but I can't find it. Regardless, I remember thinking "21 1/2, it is perfect". That's right, I guess I misread the info because this whole time I was thinking 21 1/2 was right. :embarrass

I can't reuse the pads - they look terrible, but are still intact. I removed one side completely, just to see how things looked, but I have a homemade GM spacer stick holding it. Well, last night while trying to get more measurements, I knocked the spacer loose and realized that the rear bow is at its forward stop... Is that a very bad thing? :confused::confused: I just put the spacer back in and I hope everything is ok - the other side's pad is still in place and the spacer is still locked in size.

About the interbow spacing - is it measured from the rolled edge of the rear bow to the middle of the next bow? :confused: I attached another measuring picture in case it isn't clear. That's the rear bow and my previous post has the distance to the next one.

Sorry for more stupid questions, but I am pretty determined to get this setup myself.

Thanks again!
Mark
 

Attachments

#127 ·
You should be O.K. just putting the spacer back in place, that shouldn't matter at this point. Replace the pads one at a time, don't take both of them off. Then you can measure the other side and match them. I would think the spacing would be measured from the front of the rear bow to the back of the second bow, but I don't know that for sure.

Don't over analyze this whole process, some guy making $3.00 an hour put the original top on, and he was probably hung over when he did it.
 
#128 ·
LOL, how true.

What blew me away Dan was how little room for error there is when you get that top on. I had one side of the rear bow too far forward as you remember. Thank goodness I corrected that or the seam on the top would have been in front of the bow!

I looked at the old top and sure enough, that is how it was! The bead went in front of the wire-on!

Brian
 
#129 ·
Ok, the top is looking pretty good.



The next step is buttoning up the front and the wire-on. The one problem I have is the seams at the end of the rear bow. They curve a little (or at least how I put the top on they ended up that way) and I am wondering about gathering up that material and stapling it down before the wire on is put over it, is this possible?





At the very least, move the seam over the bow, even if I still end up with a wrinkle there but to hide the seam at the very least.

Also, I am thinking stapling it pretty good across the bow before the wire-on, this would be proper?

Brian
 
#130 ·
top

I've been wondering how you have been doing. Looks good. I could see you would have a few wrinkles in this area, but didn't say anthing until you got there. You can try folding this over and stapling but sometimes it makes a big lump and shows on wire on. I would carefully cut it a little and pull your wrinkles out and staple it good. Some tops just come with slits that aren't sewn. Yes staple all across bow before wire on. Once you get it all buttoned up let it sit out in sun for awhile and it will take a set. Then if you want it to stay that way, don't put it down. Just saying. Tedious work isn't it.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top