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engine swap 36 cord to GM V/8 FRONT WHEEL DRIVE

31K views 122 replies 27 participants last post by  JohnT24 
#1 ·
Hi everybody i just bought a beautiful 1936 cord westchester and i want to convert to a gm v/8 front wheel drive to eliminate the troublesome cord drivetrain i'm 75 years young and want enjoy the car now, i need all the info i can get for this conversion thanks,jerrycord
 
#30 ·
What you are describing is what I referred to as my last comment, "But no "swaps", it would take SERIOUS redesign work and fabrication."

What you are laying out is a SERIOUS redesign and fabrication. The front axle looks like it would need to be an independent as the holes in the frame wouldn't allow a differential to be stuffed thru and not big enough to allow enough movement.

It would be a lot of money, MUCH more than people think when they start the project. Without exaggeration James, figure out what it will cost then double that, then TRIPLE that and you will be close. It is not a joke, there is no way you can figure something like this out and you WILL be in it a lot more than you think.

It's all good, you have a lot of knowledge with these set ups, looking at that stock frame in the Cord and see if you can give him some advice to make it happen. It's like I have said it isn't so much as to talk people out of stuff, but to not look thru rose colored glasses and give them the cold hard facts. If after they understand the cold hard facts they want to do, then go for it.

And simply using a Toro drivetrain isn't even close to the workable.

Brian
 
#31 ·
Brian,

You seem to be all over this and don't read what other people write before jumping in and commenting negatively that it is a lot of work and previous comments that it could not be done. I have stated 2x now that you would be best off using an Independent rear end from a Vette! Quote "The front axle looks like it would need to be an independent as the holes in the frame wouldn't allow a differential to be stuffed thru and not big enough to allow enough movement."

Can you get beyond the pretty pictures and read and understand the text? It CAN be done and yes it IS a lot of work. This isn't Car Craft where you call CA and order a crate engine and misc. adapters and bolt the parts in over the weekend! This is real Hot Rodding where you BUILD a car the way that you want it and can sit back and drive it down the road maybe a month later, or maybe a year or two later after you figure everything out!

First thing to do is start taking measurements with a notepad and tape measure. Then you determine IF the swap will work and make up some lists about what is needed and how you will do it. AFTER you have a PLAN you can start to buy some parts. During the modification process you will certainly find something that you overlooked and need to adjust/adapt/change to make it work! He asked for ideas and I presented him with some. I didn't give him a shopping list and suggest that he rush out and start buying parts. He is a long ways from that part of the project! He isn't committed to taking my suggestions, he can cancel the Project or go a totally different direction like you suggested to join the Cord Forum, be a Purist rather than a Hot Rodder and restore it to fully Stock condition!

I am sure that you KNOW all of this Brian and are trying to save the OP some time and money by discouraging him from doing this project! Good for you! Buy Detroit! Support the Economy! Now let him decide if he wants to continue, if my suggestions are workable by measuring both the Cord and a Toro drivetrain and if he decides that he still wants to do it and it might work for him then give him some additional help and support! Neither you nor I actually know if he has the mechanical skills to even give a good attempt at making this work. He needs to look at the project with an open mind and figure out if he is looking to get in WAY OVER HIS HEAD with the work involved or the cost of having some one else do it! He bought the Cord, maybe he has retirement funds that he doesn't want to leave to his Kids and would rather tinker in the garage on his Cord Project to make himself happy!

Swiss :thumbup:
 
#34 ·
Brian,

You seem to be all over this and don't read what other people write before jumping in and commenting negatively that it is a lot of work and previous comments that it could not be done. I have stated 2x now that you would be best off using an Independent rear end from a Vette! Quote "The front axle looks like it would need to be an independent as the holes in the frame wouldn't allow a differential to be stuffed thru and not big enough to allow enough movement."
You are right I glossed over that and went back to read it better after I posted.

Can you get beyond the pretty pictures and read and understand the text? It CAN be done and yes it IS a lot of work. This isn't Car Craft where you call CA and order a crate engine and misc. adapters and bolt the parts in over the weekend! This is real Hot Rodding where you BUILD a car the way that you want it and can sit back and drive it down the road maybe a month later, or maybe a year or two later after you figure everything out!

First thing to do is start taking measurements with a notepad and tape measure. Then you determine IF the swap will work and make up some lists about what is needed and how you will do it. AFTER you have a PLAN you can start to buy some parts. During the modification process you will certainly find something that you overlooked and need to adjust/adapt/change to make it work! He asked for ideas and I presented him with some. I didn't give him a shopping list and suggest that he rush out and start buying parts. He is a long ways from that part of the project! He isn't committed to taking my suggestions, he can cancel the Project or go a totally different direction like you suggested to join the Cord Forum, be a Purist rather than a Hot Rodder and restore it to fully Stock condition!

I am sure that you KNOW all of this Brian and are trying to save the OP some time and money by discouraging him from doing this project! Good for you! Buy Detroit! Support the Economy! Now let him decide if he wants to continue, if my suggestions are workable by measuring both the Cord and a Toro drivetrain and if he decides that he still wants to do it and it might work for him then give him some additional help and support! Neither you nor I actually know if he has the mechanical skills to even give a good attempt at making this work. He needs to look at the project with an open mind and figure out if he is looking to get in WAY OVER HIS HEAD with the work involved or the cost of having some one else do it! He bought the Cord, maybe he has retirement funds that he doesn't want to leave to his Kids and would rather tinker in the garage on his Cord Project to make himself happy!

Swiss :thumbup:
You are very right I don't know his skills or financial position to have it done. But I have found it isn't that hard to read between the lines either. But I will wait until he returns if I haven't scared him away.

Brian
 
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#33 ·
John I would say that is where the adaptation/fabrication gets real. The output shafts of the Vette could be adapted to some current or possibly Olds Toro style front drive parts or maybe some more modern units could be used off of some of the current front wheel drive designs matched to the Vette output shafts? I didn't see any photos of the Cord kingpins or steering parts so I don't know if they could be adapted to work or not?

Certainly not a game stopper.

Swiss
 
#35 ·
Maybe I will add fuel to the fire or maybe not...As far as wanting to put a late model engine drivetrain in a early classic sure thing as now we have a usable car and it does not wind up in some scrapyard..

Now as to my approach to this and keeping the budget doable I will go to my 4wd buddies and get a front end from a Tahoe or Colorado 4x4..H'mmm Ifs disk brakes steering, steering box and all that that I need..Now I would adapt that to the front of the Cord chassis..Not much more difficult than putting a Nova clip in you ole chev pickup..just a fabrication issue here..

Once that is in then take the engine trans and transfer case from the Tahoe or whatever and install that..H'mm so far so good..Might need to massage the firewall and floor pan a bit to allw this to go in where the original engine went..Now blocking off the transfer case to the rear..Go see Tim and get a bolt in yoke that fits the seal.bolt that puppy in and voila the oil stays in the transfer case..Now it is off to the driveline guy to have a shaft made of the correct length and install that..So far so good and now all that is left is the wiring and radiator and exhaust..Nothing here I can see that is not pretty much regular hot rod work except for the part of wrapping ones brain around it..

BTW the late GM suv and pickups use a torsion bar suspension so no spring towers to hassle with..

Sam
 
#40 ·
Actually, i was just thinking about this whole thing today; If you are not concerned about originality, drivetrain-wise at least. And it doesn't appear that you are, then maybe just switch to RWD---might be just as easy as re-doing the FWD thing.

i don't know if cords were/are unibody.

i also don't know the dimensions of the car, but i'm sure there are other cars with similar dimensions where you could use their frame and drivetrain---impalas, monte carlos, s-10's come to mind..............and just "plop" the body on top.

Too crude? Maybe i just confused the issue more.
 
#44 ·
Guys look at post 51 in that linked thread..Shows a chev v-8 with a porsche trans and front wheel drive..makes sense to me..Actually I like the idea of keeping the front wheel drive as doing all the floor pan and rear suspension mods to make a rear wheel drive just seems like a real zoo to do when we have some good alternatives to retain the front wheel drive..

Sam
 
#46 ·
I've been following this thread for a while now. While I agree that the car should be kept stock, it isn't my car so my opinion is meaningless. I think the main thing here is for the OP to understand the magnitude of work involved with a swap. From the photos, it appears that the original drivetrain is simply a V8 and transaxle turned around. What immediately comes to mind is a Corvair drivetrain. You can get adapters to bolt an SBC or BOP engine to a Corvair transaxle. V8 Vair swaps flip the transaxle around, but if you keep it in the stock orientation (transaxle in front, engine behind), the engine would be in the same place as the stock Cord. A Buick 3800 V6 might make for a tidy package. The Audi transaxle is also popular for mid engine swaps. I don't know how hard it is to turn it around to run the engine behind it, however. Same goes for the transaxles in the Chrysler Concorde. Do some junkyard investigating. If you can keep the mods pretty much bolt-on, and retain all the original parts, the next owner can put the car back to stock if desired. No harm, no foul.

As for front suspension, consider the C4 Corvette. Look closely at the uprights for the front and back. It looks like they both take the same wheel bearing package, but the rears are configured to accept a driveshaft. I'll bet you can put the rear bearings in the front uprights and get a FWD setup that steers. Failing that, consider the S-10 spindles. These are configured for either 2WD or 4WD by swapping the hub assembly.
 
#59 ·
I've been following this thread for a while now. While I agree that the car should be kept stock, it isn't my car so my opinion is meaningless. I think the main thing here is for the OP to understand the magnitude of work involved with a swap. From the photos, it appears that the original drivetrain is simply a V8 and transaxle turned around. What immediately comes to mind is a Corvair drivetrain. You can get adapters to bolt an SBC or BOP engine to a Corvair transaxle. V8 Vair swaps flip the transaxle around, but if you keep it in the stock orientation (transaxle in front, engine behind), the engine would be in the same place as the stock Cord. A Buick 3800 V6 might make for a tidy package. The Audi transaxle is also popular for mid engine swaps. I don't know how hard it is to turn it around to run the engine behind it, however. Same goes for the transaxles in the Chrysler Concorde. Do some junkyard investigating. If you can keep the mods pretty much bolt-on, and retain all the original parts, the next owner can put the car back to stock if desired. No harm, no foul.

As for front suspension, consider the C4 Corvette. Look closely at the uprights for the front and back. It looks like they both take the same wheel bearing package, but the rears are configured to accept a driveshaft. I'll bet you can put the rear bearings in the front uprights and get a FWD setup that steers. Failing that, consider the S-10 spindles. These are configured for either 2WD or 4WD by swapping the hub assembly.
hi joe,thanks for the info,it's really appreciated,i try to personally respond to as many of you as i can. i am leaning towards an olds toro fwd unit as it's already been done,there's a beautifully done cord in indiana using this drivetrain and that's what sold me! if i could find and talk to him it would make this project simpler,but i'm going to make it happen! again thanks joe and everbody out there! jerrycord
 
#51 ·
jerrycord,
" my cousin will perform the swap on my cord as he can also build a new stubframe i told him i would do all the research thats why i picked this site."

have him check into a Chevy Colorado pick-up as a donor for this. They did/do make them with 4, 5, 6, and V8 engines 2WD/4WD. Disc brakes, rack&pinion steering, IFS, torsion bars and sway bars for any engine/vehicle weight. Whole lot easier than starting from scratch and the parts will be available for years to come.

The Colorado is laid-out a lot better than an S-10, cleaner, easier to use and newer.

Good luck with it, post some pics.
 
#52 ·
jerrycord,
" my cousin will perform the swap on my cord as he can also build a new stubframe i told him i would do all the research thats why i picked this site."

have him check into a Chevy Colorado pick-up as a donor for this. They did/do make them with 4, 5, 6, and V8 engines 2WD/4WD. Disc brakes, rack&pinion steering, IFS, torsion bars and sway bars for any engine/vehicle weight. Whole lot easier than starting from scratch and the parts will be available for years to come.

The Colorado is laid-out a lot better than an S-10, cleaner, easier to use and newer.

Good luck with it, post some pics.
oldbodyman, thanks for the info,we will defenitly check this idea of yours out,thanks again for the tip, jerrycord
 
#58 ·
Yep but on the same respect it will hit me often how amazing the net is. To think of how easy it is to chat with people thousands of miles away. It's more about FINDING these people than chatting, the phone did that over a hundred years ago. But for FINDING the people, that is the cool part.

That will have to be good enough for us until Apple starts selling a teleporter. :)

Brian
 
#60 ·
jerry's cord

to brian martin sr,john long,sam&everybody,this is my first attempt at sending pictures,the 1st pic should be my "55"chev. bel air taken in "01"after a 2 yr restoration,next is my 1st look in the garage in n.h.where i bought the cord,the rest are taken at my cousin's shop. Note the brazed casting repair in the fwd,these cars are famous for losing wheels amongst other major problems which is why i'm doing the engine swap. thanks again brian,jerrycord
 

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#61 ·
Well, I'm glad to see you learned how to post pics. :thumbup:
You're gonna need to keep up on this new found talent as this swap progresses.

We'll expect at least daily updates and pics when you get started.:D

If I knew that the casting could break at any time, I'd be doing this swap for sure as well.
 
#64 ·
Very coo Jerry, be sure to post in the "what did you work on today" thread over in the "Hotrodders lounge" forum. :D

Brian
hi brian,thanks for the help with the pictures, more to follow later. it's actually going to be awhile before we start work on this project because I am going to sell the Cord engine, transmission, and all drive components. All of these parts are in great running condition and should command a great price. The components will stay on the car so perspective buyers can see how they run.
regards
Jerry
 
#71 ·
Hey Jerry. I Just got to catch up on the Forum tonight. Good to see the pictures. I don't think any of us realized what a neat project you have. Like the others, Imhope you will keep us posted on you progress.

John L
hi john, thanks for the reply,i'll post more pics later this week ,we trailered the cord to a car show out here in my home town [beverly,ma.] this past saturday,drew quite a crowd as most folks have never seen one up close,car presently is not a driver as entire brake system needs rebuilding& i can't see doing the brakes as drivetrain is coming out.my cousins sons had a display at this show i'll post pics of a couple of their builds,you'll be surprised. regards, jerry
 
#70 ·
Jerry, that's a super cool car! You have a great start, looking at the pics, git er dun! :D A Caddy or Toro set up would be too cool. Mucho power and it would be a natural for a big car like that. Anxious! lol. Dan
 
#72 ·
Jerry, that's a super cool car! You have a great start, looking at the pics, git er dun! :D A Caddy or Toro set up would be too cool. Mucho power and it would be a natural for a big car like that. Anxious! lol. Dan
hi dan, thanks for the reply,you're right about this cord being a great start,this is originally an arizona car which recieved a full frame off resto from 1971-1973 by a noted resto firm in ariz. it has all the metal it was born with ,no patch panels,it is one of only 6 built with the optional leather interior. it's only been driven 4,ooo miles since complete,i was very,very lucky to find such a nice example,this cord will be treated with the greatest respect. regards,jerry
 
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