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Topic Review (Newest First)
08-02-2012 07:43 PM
russ69coupe
Quote:
Originally Posted by angelf0926 View Post
Got it...so one thing is for sure..I'm going to take the heads to a shop to get them ported..if they can give me a fair price on the rebuild I might just take it..if not..then I may just have to take this on myself after I've read a few books and watched some dvds..my friend is rebuilding a 350 so I might go help him out so I can get some idea of what it consists of..thanks u guys have been a great help
The assembly isn't hard as long as you have patience. But if the machine shop work is garbage your engine will be garbage, so make sure to get lots of opinions on the shops in your area before choosing one. Price shouldn't be the number one factor in choosing a place.

Russ
08-02-2012 07:15 PM
1971BB427 Here's what I have done when I get machine work done on a std. rebuild.
Hot tank and magnaflux the block for cracks. That's always first, so you know you're starting with a good block.
Bore or hone the cylinders, depending on what they need.
Align bore the mains to ensure it's all true and to size.
Size and inspect all the rods. I also have the shop press the new pistons on at that time.
Check the crank and turn as needed.
Clean and check the heads. New valves or refinish the valves. I always use SS valves if they don't have them in the heads, and new hardened seats if they don't have those. Check all the springs, and do a valve job on the heads. New guides and seals.
Once that's done I have them flush the block and install new brass soft plugs, and all the threaded plugs too.
I also have the shop press in all new cam bearings.

When I get it home I fit all the rings to the cylinders they will go in, then install them on the piston/rod for that cylinder. I plastigauge all the bearings, just to double check the shop's work and then install all the new main and rod bearings.
Then just reassemble the rest the pieces, cam, oil pump, lifters, heads, etc, etc.
08-02-2012 06:55 PM
angelf0926 Got it...so one thing is for sure..I'm going to take the heads to a shop to get them ported..if they can give me a fair price on the rebuild I might just take it..if not..then I may just have to take this on myself after I've read a few books and watched some dvds..my friend is rebuilding a 350 so I might go help him out so I can get some idea of what it consists of..thanks u guys have been a great help
08-02-2012 06:11 PM
russ69coupe Porting and polishing will be extra. Usually any machining is extra. The rebuild price is basically r&r'ing the parts.
Let the shop do it's stuff before you buy any kit. Until they measure and check everything there is no telling what you will need in what size.
Plus, the shop may be able to get you a better deal on parts than a kit would. Sometimes.
I know there is a lot of info on what a "good" rebuild entails here and other places. Maybe in the books you are getting.
Good luck,
Russ
08-02-2012 12:51 AM
angelf0926 I'm going to take the engine to a reputable shop so that they can check it out for me that way I know what I have to do..btw...what exactly does a rebuild consist of? I know the kit comes with pistons, bearings, rings, gaskets..and a few other things...but other than the rebuild kit...what machine work is actually done to the engine? Perhaps porting and polishing the heads? Or??...
08-01-2012 07:53 AM
1971BB427 Rebuild, or build up?
If you're going to do any machine work you'll always want to rebuild the bottom end, but at 450-500 hp you don't need anything extra beyond a good rebuild. I always have my cranks checked, and turned if needed. I also have all block mains align bored; it's cheap insurance. After that it's just new bearings of good quality. Any good machine shop should check bores and either bore or hone them to whatever piston you'll be using.
07-31-2012 09:50 PM
bigdog7373
Quote:
Originally Posted by angelf0926 View Post
Okay I came to a conclusion guys...I'm going to stay with the engine I have..found a pair of 049 heads for $150..going to take them to a shop for a valve job and some minor porting..new pistons, victor reinz gaskets as the block I have is a gen v..thanks a lot guys at least now I won't be stressing so much about these decisions..one more question..my goal is to reach between 450- 500hp mark..would I have to rebuild the bottom end or no?
You'll hit 450 easy. Just get all new bearings, that will be fine. Maybe get the crank checked just in case.
I'd shoot for 9.5:1 compression. Port and polished heads, performer rpm manifold, and a cam with an rpm range starting somewhere between 1200 and 1600 rpm. Will be a nice torquey motor.
07-31-2012 09:01 PM
angelf0926 Okay I came to a conclusion guys...I'm going to stay with the engine I have..found a pair of 049 heads for $150..going to take them to a shop for a valve job and some minor porting..new pistons, victor reinz gaskets as the block I have is a gen v..thanks a lot guys at least now I won't be stressing so much about these decisions..one more question..my goal is to reach between 450- 500hp mark..would I have to rebuild the bottom end or no?
07-31-2012 04:24 PM
1971BB427 Take the $950 and put it into the engine you have, plus whatever you would have spent to upgrade the $950 engine. You'll be money ahead and have an engine you really know.
07-31-2012 02:26 PM
bigdog7373 My thinking is simply:
1. Buy the engine if you want to use it as-is
Or,
2. Build the one you have.

No point in buying an engine you already own.
07-31-2012 01:45 PM
AutoGear In a nutshell; if you're buying a $950 454; and then you're going to yank out the rotating assembly; you're left with a $200 block. Now; what if this guy already has it punched oversize and you have an issue disassembling it, lets say you scratch a bore, do you have enough 'meat' left to still use the block?

If you're interested in buying a motor to change the heads, cam etc...thats fine; however, when you change the rotating assembly and factor in things like balancing; the only thing you're saving money on is the block and head castings.
If the heads have quality parts and their cost, plus the cost of a bare block is approx 900 bucks; it MAY be a good deal.

If he used rebuilder pistons, bulk springs etc, etc....it'll probably be a wash money wise so just build what you want. Talk to a reputable machine shop in your area; you have a BBC to either rebuild or trade in for a new shortblock. Hell the machine shop probably has a 454 shortblock in a bag on a stand, just add heads, intake, distributor, carb, pan and accessories.
07-31-2012 12:38 PM
bigdog7373 Wait you have a 454 but you want to buy a different one? Unless there's something majorly wrong with what you have then use it. You're saving $900 right there.
07-31-2012 12:31 AM
angelf0926 Ok so u r suggesting I would be better off and save more money if I just got my hands on a core and rebuild myself? Because I do have a 454 gen v..i put it on sale on Craigslist ..I still have it...reason why I am selling is to put money into this other engine I found if it checks out OK...and because bolts are stuck in harmonic balancer and heads..another reason why is because I found out i need a special gasket to throw mark iv heads on it and I'm also risking a coolant leak..I have four 454 manuals arriving to my house this week so I can do my read and do my research to try to learn how to do a few things myself..now you guys have me thinking if this other engine is actually worth it? I know at the end of the day its up to me...what do you guys think? Sorry if these are some ridiculously dumb questions..Ive barely entered the hotrodding world
07-30-2012 10:20 PM
66GMC Hmmm ... $900 probably isn't so bad a price, even if you consider it to be a "running core" ... (as it sounds like you considering it to be).

'781 heads, carb and intake alone are probably worth at least 3 or 4 hundred.

"Warranty" from a private sale isn't usually worth the paper it is written on, IMO, and certainly will never cover any costs to repair or replace n excess of the purchase price.

You can be sure that he'll be deducting the full retail value of that new intake, etc, as "salvage" from any claim ... and will likely have the receipts to back it up. It just never ends well.

Perhaps if you tell the seller that this engine will be going to the machine shop for teardown and evaluation, (which is your intention anyway) and that you'd be willing to give the machine shop a deposit large enough to pay for gaskets and re-assembly ... it might put you both in a position of mutual trust. Until the inspection has been performed and you have paid the negotiated price, the engine remains the property of the seller.

If and when you are happy with the results of the inspection, and completed the purchase, it then becomes your sole property ... and he signs off on the work-order. This also allows the seller to offer the sale of the engine to you
"as is" letting him off the hook for any further offer of "warranty" ... because you won't need it. You'll know what you have.

If the engine DOES check out OK, I'd add:
  • a balance job. My machinist assures me that my 2-bolt 454 is guaranteed to be good to 7,000 RPM
  • a set of new (ie ARP) fastners all around on the rods and mains.
  • New oil pump, intermediate shaft, and pickup screen. Don't let anyone talk you into cleaning and re-using an old screen. Tack-weld the new screen to the pump.
  • All new frost plugs, a block heater (if winter driven) etc.

It's all more cheap insurance, and SO much easier to do at this stage in the build.
07-30-2012 09:51 PM
bigdog7373
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1971BB427 View Post
If you're planning all that work to the engine, then why buy a rebuilt engine? Makes no sense at all. You could buy a core for less than half that, and then do the rebuild yourself.
I'd either leave it alone, or get a builder engine, not buy a rebuilt and rebuild it again.
Very good point. You're paying almost $1k for and engine that you are going to tear down and replace everything you woukd if you were rebuilding. Find one for around $300 and build it how you want it.
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