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Topic Review (Newest First)
08-08-2012 01:22 PM
tech69
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lizer View Post
Wait, were you meaning measurement between the 2 C lines or between each C line to rocker? If I do the latter I can prove it's the quarter. I think ultimately I'm probably going to end up hanging the door to split the difference, maybe add a little something here or there because I just don't want to do anymore major reconstructive work to the quarter I've decided.
oh ok, so it was the quarter as I originally suspected. Yeah, sounds like you can do a few things to minimize it. What Martin suggested works well. You can use a dolly to change the door gap a hair and then fill and use tape to get the recreated line straight. Lots of ways to handle this.

Lizer, I meant the space between the top C line and the lower of the top two lines.
08-07-2012 10:47 PM
MARTINSR On those short lines on the quarter you could take a spoon and massage the line down a little then a skim coat of polyester putty over the top to smooth out any marks and you could bring that line down a hair.

Brian
08-07-2012 10:34 PM
Lizer Wait, were you meaning measurement between the 2 C lines or between each C line to rocker? If I do the latter I can prove it's the quarter. I think ultimately I'm probably going to end up hanging the door to split the difference, maybe add a little something here or there because I just don't want to do anymore major reconstructive work to the quarter I've decided.
08-06-2012 06:49 PM
tech69 if your measurements are the same now measure the doors and the space between the lines. It must be your door skin then. I guessed your quarter cause you replaced that area and it was waaay off even for an aftermarket skin.
08-04-2012 09:29 PM
Lizer Yes, according to the pictures it must have been lined up pretty good. I don't recall hanging it but don't know why I would have put it on any other way than what lines up properly. Which is why I think it is the quarter. The quarter could have come down some on the rocker. Maybe 1/8".
08-04-2012 09:05 PM
MARTINSR Just trying to put it all together in my head. You probably have said all this but I don't remember for sure.

Now with the old door skin did it line up with the quarter "C" lines before you changed the quarter? The photo looks pretty good. This of course REALLY lays it all on that quarter.

Brian
08-04-2012 08:14 PM
Lizer
Quote:
Originally Posted by MARTINSR View Post
But with the old door skin how were they, why did you change the skin? What was the top, and lower body lines like on the old skin?

Brian
The old skin was the same....we lined up the top but the bottom lines on the door were a good half inch lower than the quarter lines. At that time we thought the problem was a bad skin and the solution was a new, better skin. Well I installed a new, better skin (and much better than the first skin so I have that going for me) I'm still left with the same issue.

Have you ever considered a career with CSI by the way?
08-04-2012 07:58 PM
MARTINSR But with the old door skin how were they, why did you change the skin? What was the top, and lower body lines like on the old skin?

Brian
08-04-2012 06:24 PM
Lizer I put another skin on the door just a few weeks ago. I kept the door hanging without the skin though, and the body lines of the door frame structure still hung a little lower than the C stripe lines on the quarter.

Henry--I measured both quarter body lines and both were exactly the same right down to the 16" of an inch.
08-04-2012 05:09 PM
MARTINSR But didn't you also say something about putting on another skin since the quarter?

Brian
08-04-2012 04:33 PM
Lizer
Quote:
Originally Posted by MARTINSR View Post
Ok, let me get this straight, you hung the quarter splicing it leaving the upper "belt moulding" area alone. At that time you had a door with a new skin on it, and it fit and matched the lines. You put the new quarter on without messing with the door. At THAT time did the top of the door line up? It would have to being the upper section of the quarter wasn't changed and the door wasn't moved. Am I right, at that point with the first door skin and the new quarter installed the top of the door fit, matching the height of the quarter?

Brian
Yes, the top of the door still lined up. The lines on the door were lower than the lines on the skin though. Even now the top of the door will still line up to the top of the quarter, but then the door C stripe lines will be lower than the quarter lines. Which is why the gap between the door and rocker is so large, because the door is lifted up higher than it should be so the door C stripe lines match up with those on the quarter.
08-04-2012 04:24 PM
MARTINSR Ok, let me get this straight, you hung the quarter splicing it leaving the upper "belt moulding" area alone. At that time you had a door with a new skin on it, and it fit and matched the lines. You put the new quarter on without messing with the door. At THAT time did the top of the door line up? It would have to being the upper section of the quarter wasn't changed and the door wasn't moved. Am I right, at that point with the first door skin and the new quarter installed the top of the door fit, matching the height of the quarter?

Brian
08-04-2012 02:38 PM
Lizer
Quote:
Originally Posted by tech69 View Post
Lizer,

before you do any of that measure the distance between the top and bottom lines of the left and right quarters and doors. If it's the quarter the distance between the uppers and lowers will be shorter on the right quarter. If you put tape right on the peak of the body line it will help the measurement be accurate enough where a clear discrepancy will jump out, that is of course if the aftermarket quarter has a bodyline that's pretty close in roundness to the original on the driver's side.

So if that's it and you still have the original quarter you can do an awesome open butt weld repair. If not, I would try to use a mini air saw due to the blade being thin so when you cut out the piece you plan on reusing you will have more metal on it. an air saw with a sawzall blade will give you more control for straighter cuts.

you can also cut out your quarter with a spot welder bit for the plugs and and carefully use a cutt off wheel for the welds at the flange up top but you probably won't be able to just loosen the front and bring it down. It would have to be the whole quarter, and you would also have to figure out why it's not going down...wheel house? Flange to rocker ? door jamb opening bend to rocker?

Sometimes the corners of the flange that tucks under just needs to be snipped cause there's not enough room in there for it, or just bend the corners. Sometimes it's the door jamb bend that goes to door gap to rocker gap. Just have to figure out why.
I can check those measurements easy enough. The quarter on the drivers side is new, too, but fits well. I will still give some of the door adjustments suggested earlier a try to see how much I can 'minimize' the discrepancies and see if it's something I can live with. And I need to study that area for feasibility in the event I need to knock out the quarter ornament section to fix.
08-04-2012 02:28 PM
Lizer
Quote:
Originally Posted by MARTINSR View Post
I am confused, cut what welds and move what down? It looks like the quarter is too low then, wouldn't you want to cut the quarter welds to the rocker and lift it up? I am just talking, it's more complicated than that.

I know how you feel about your dilemma I feel the same way about my convertible top. I am way out of my comfort zone on that and I have stopped and am giving me a little sit and cool down time before I jump on it again.

Brian
cut the butt weld where the skin meets the top few inches of the original quarter. Then move the quarter down. The quarter needs to go down. If the door is hung correctly so the top body lines meet the top of the quarter, the gap along the rocker is correct. But now the C stripe body lines on the door are lower than the C strip body lines on the quarter, because the entire section of skin that went in may have been too high. I'm not stating this as cold hard fact, only what my own assessment of the situation is based on knowing what and how I did the work and seeing it. Does that make sense? I'm trying to help your understanding more.

I have hundreds, if not almost a thousand pics of this car through its entire restoration process. I have included several here for your additional help.

The first one shows the gap of the rocker and the new quarter. It wasn't remarkably huge but I do remember having to fight it to close it.

The second picture I think it is shows the door hung with the old quarter. Works well.

The third picture is ORIGINAL DOOR AND SKIN with the new quarter on the driver's side. (These pics are old before a lot of body work and primer ever happened). That quarter was installed by a top notch shop and they did a fantastic job. The door gaps and body lines on the driver's side are perfect and they gapped it.

The fourth picture shows the skin cut out so you can visualize what I'm talking about better. See the top of the quarter never moves. Now picture the quarter getting placed in there and possibly not set down to far so the bottom 95% of the quarter near the door jamb sits too high, while the top 5% of the quarter never moved at all so it still sits properly.

I must say it's comforting to know even you guys get frustrated and in over your head on certain things. This really bothers me because I'm better than this, I have a good understanding of this stuff from some classes and following you guys religiously, and I still let it happen this way. And right now, literally the only thing that WAS standing in my way of final blocking and sealing the entire car was merely getting the door jamb and new skin epoxied and blocked.
08-04-2012 01:28 PM
tech69 Lizer,

before you do any of that measure the distance between the top and bottom lines of the left and right quarters and doors. If it's the quarter the distance between the uppers and lowers will be shorter on the right quarter. If you put tape right on the peak of the body line it will help the measurement be accurate enough where a clear discrepancy will jump out, that is of course if the aftermarket quarter has a bodyline that's pretty close in roundness to the original on the driver's side.

So if that's it and you still have the original quarter you can do an awesome open butt weld repair. If not, I would try to use a mini air saw due to the blade being thin so when you cut out the piece you plan on reusing you will have more metal on it. an air saw with a sawzall blade will give you more control for straighter cuts.

you can also cut out your quarter with a spot welder bit for the plugs and and carefully use a cutt off wheel for the welds at the flange up top but you probably won't be able to just loosen the front and bring it down. It would have to be the whole quarter, and you would also have to figure out why it's not going down...wheel house? Flange to rocker ? door jamb opening bend to rocker?

Sometimes the corners of the flange that tucks under just needs to be snipped cause there's not enough room in there for it, or just bend the corners. Sometimes it's the door jamb bend that goes to door gap to rocker gap. Just have to figure out why.
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