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Topic Review (Newest First)
07-28-2013 06:37 PM
MARTINSR Today I removed the rain gutters from a roof and I thought of this "Basics". This is how well these procedures work.

This rain gutter is very thin metal, VERY fragile. I was able to "un-bolt" it by simply removing the spot welds just as I would have a bolt. And in fact, easier, being it was badly rusted and bolts would have been rusted and likely not even removable! Especially if they were screws, the would have been all rounded off and stuck for ever. But with spot welds, a simple spot weld drill on a pneumatic drill I had them off in minutes without so much as one curse word or drip of sweat.









You can not believe how easy they came off, one spot on each one I had to slip a standard screw driver down between them and the roof to give a light tap with a hammer. Other than that I literally wiggled them and pulled them off.

Brian
08-08-2012 08:37 AM
gto_ron thanks Brian

I've been doing it wrong for years, caused myself a lot of extra work.

Ron
08-07-2012 08:26 AM
MARTINSR That is one of the things that people will overlook, that there is some work that saves other work from needing to be done. It's a simple concept that we will often be blinded to.

Brian
08-06-2012 06:52 PM
tech69 great thread. There's a lot of planning that goes on when cutting out big stuff and if you plan wrong you're making a lot of work, if you plan right you're doing less work.
08-05-2012 10:46 AM
MARTINSR And if you ever wanted to punch other shaped holes they have the dies for that too!
Roper Whitney - Quality Sheet Metal Fabrication Equipment

I picked up the Jr at a garage sale for only ten bucks or something I forget, but it was a killer deal. Bought the XX years ago and never regretted it.

Covell, oh heck yeah that guy is so friggin easy going. I wish I had his people skills but they are all natural to him. My brother and I had just did your run of the mill hot rods never any real fabbing. At a Grand National Roadster show (when it was in Oakland, damn I miss it) he had just started doing his classes, this was about 1989? My brother and I were talking to him next to a beautiful A roadster that he had there on display in bare metal. We were drooling over it and basically telling him how we wish we could build such a car. He looked at us and said something to the effect of "You can, I am not special, you can do it just as I did". It blew us away and I am not kidding you, we left that meeting with Ron different people. We went home and built a very special car, a super detailed very special car and I KNOW Ron had a big hand in making it happen. All from his nudge that he gave us that day. Very cool guy, he is one down to earth ego-less genuine guy that is for sure.

Brian
08-05-2012 10:33 AM
DanielC I do have the Ron Covell videos, and have been to a few of his seminars at Clackamas Community College, in Oregon City, Oregon. He is a good guy, very knowledgeable, nice, and does not speak down to anyone, in his seminars. go to one, you will see. At least the videos I have from him are on DVD.
I have heard of the Whitney Roper punch, and even looked into getting one. Unfortunately, the 7A "junior" is not recommended for sizes larger than about 5/16, so I would need the next larger size of punch, and that was about $200, when I finally found one. That is a little spendy, but I think I am going to have to "bite the bullet", and get one
08-05-2012 10:07 AM
MARTINSR And by the way, there is NO WAY after owning that Roper Whitney I would be doing fab or restoration work without it. That and the Roper Whitney "Jr" a smaller version with different sized punches, they are worth their weight in gold if you ask me.

Brian
08-05-2012 10:05 AM
MARTINSR
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chevymon View Post
Brian, I have found that if I drill the hole 1/64 larger than the hole plug, it works good, although just tight enough to hold it. And the I have to use the step drill bits to get a round hole.
I typically can't find the perfect drill for that. So a rat tail file is usually what I will chose. But yes, especially if you are doing a number of them, go buy a friggin drill bit a 64th inch larger, that would be the way to go.

Brian
08-05-2012 10:02 AM
MARTINSR
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lizer View Post
perhaps not by the name Blair, but an exact same bit is still available. Go to any auto parts store and buy a 'spot weld cutter' and that is what you get. Don't ask me how I know that

Grinding the metal is loud, throws the sparks everywhere and it just so happens that the position I need to sit in or lay in is the exact position where it will throw all the shavings and metal on my arm and burn it or in my face, so then I have to contort my body somehow. I've also started wearing my respirator when doing this lately, because the smell and fume that comes off the metal really irritates me and after awhile would start giving me a headache.
OH HELL YES wear your respirator! Do you know what "Fumes" are? Fumes are literally the material being burned up in the air. YES the material being burned, the metal, rust THAT is what you are taking into your body as air borne particles! And ear protection, wear good ear protection. I use nothing but REAL ear protection, not a piece of foam stuck in my ear.



NOT these (my opinion)



I have a number of pairs so I don't have to hunt for one if I have misplaced it. And so my kids can put them on if they are in the garage.

But my absolute favorite are the ones with the radio. They are about $50 and I feel well worth it. I use them when mowing the lawn, I can go on working listening to my baseball games or what ever, they are THE way to go for me.



Click here for Worktunes Click here for Worktunes

Brian
08-05-2012 10:02 AM
Chevymon Brian, I have found that if I drill the hole 1/64 larger than the hole plug, it works good, although just tight enough to hold it. And the I have to use the step drill bits to get a round hole.
08-05-2012 09:53 AM
MARTINSR
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanielC View Post
This is such a good write up! I like articles that explain how we do it, with pictures, and why.
One question, I have only been able to find the Blair spot weld saw in my local body shop suppliers. What are the sources on some of the other spot weld saw brands you mentioned?

I have found that the Blair saw sometimes skips around as you start to enter the metal with it, and drilling the 1/8 pilot hole really reduces that tendency. Also, if you are reusing panels and because of welding access, you need to fill in the 3/8 hole made by the saw, before attaching two or more pieces together, do you know a source of 3/8 sheet metal plugs, or slugs to fill in the hole on the bottom panel of the weld?
The best thing I have ever found to fill those holes is a Roper Whitney punch.



I saw this trick in a Ron Covell video years ago, (VHS video if that tells you how long ago). It was in the first five minutes of the video and I could have turned it off and tossed it in the garbage as this one tip was worth the video price. It's in "Basic sheet metal working" and I HIGHLY recommend it if you want to learn a bunch more like this. Ron is a master and genuinely nice guy. Ron Covell Creative Metalworking Workshops

Using the punch you knock a slug out of a piece of similar metal.



You then set that piece in the hole and with a dolly behind it you tap the slug flat enlarging it's size so it holds it's self in the hole!



Is that cool or what! With different thicknesses of metal you sometimes have to clean up the edges like I did this one so the slug will fit in the hole. But typically the best way is to punch a clean hole punching the drilled hole out of the metal. That way you have a perfect round hole for your slug. But it will often need a little enlarging with a rat tail file to accommodate the slug.

Brian
08-05-2012 09:44 AM
Lizer
Quote:
Originally Posted by MARTINSR View Post
This is true if you don't need to save the panel you are removing at all then the die grinder with a cut off disc can be the easiest on the panel below, you can delicately remove that weld without so much as touching the underlying metal. The thing I hate about it is the sparks and noise. My Spitznagel is still tops in my book.

Your description of the Blair is how I remembered it, and I honestly didn't think they were even available anymore.

Brian
perhaps not by the name Blair, but an exact same bit is still available. Go to any auto parts store and buy a 'spot weld cutter' and that is what you get. Don't ask me how I know that

Grinding the metal is loud, throws the sparks everywhere and it just so happens that the position I need to sit in or lay in is the exact position where it will throw all the shavings and metal on my arm and burn it or in my face, so then I have to contort my body somehow. I've also started wearing my respirator when doing this lately, because the smell and fume that comes off the metal really irritates me and after awhile would start giving me a headache.
08-05-2012 09:38 AM
MARTINSR
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lizer View Post
What you have described here is pretty much how I remove welds to a "T." However I have the spotweld cutter shown in 1A and find it to be almost absolutely worthless. It jumps all around and will still easily cut through both pieces of metal! In order to use it I drill a small pilot hole in the spot--just enough to make an indent, then put the cutter pilot point in that indent and it's usually enough to keep it from moving around.

I remove most of my spot welds with a pneumatic 3" cut off wheel like you showed. I like it because I think it keeps the metal underneath the most intact, but I first drill part of the spot weld out with a 1/4" bit (but don't go through the metal). This removes about half of the metal to the weld then I finish off with the cutter. However, as it is with most things, no one tool or method is good for universal use, so I find myself using all of these tools and methods in the removal of any given panel.
This is true if you don't need to save the panel you are removing at all then the die grinder with a cut off disc can be the easiest on the panel below, you can delicately remove that weld without so much as touching the underlying metal. The thing I hate about it is the sparks and noise. My Spitznagel is still tops in my book.

Your description of the Blair is how I remembered it, and I honestly didn't think they were even available anymore.

Brian
08-05-2012 09:08 AM
Lizer What you have described here is pretty much how I remove welds to a "T." However I have the spotweld cutter shown in 1A and find it to be almost absolutely worthless. It jumps all around and will still easily cut through both pieces of metal! In order to use it I drill a small pilot hole in the spot--just enough to make an indent, then put the cutter pilot point in that indent and it's usually enough to keep it from moving around.

I remove most of my spot welds with a pneumatic 3" cut off wheel like you showed. I like it because I think it keeps the metal underneath the most intact, but I first drill part of the spot weld out with a 1/4" bit (but don't go through the metal). This removes about half of the metal to the weld then I finish off with the cutter. However, as it is with most things, no one tool or method is good for universal use, so I find myself using all of these tools and methods in the removal of any given panel.
08-05-2012 08:17 AM
DanielC This is such a good write up! I like articles that explain how we do it, with pictures, and why.
One question, I have only been able to find the Blair spot weld saw in my local body shop suppliers. What are the sources on some of the other spot weld saw brands you mentioned?

I have found that the Blair saw sometimes skips around as you start to enter the metal with it, and drilling the 1/8 pilot hole really reduces that tendency. Also, if you are reusing panels and because of welding access, you need to fill in the 3/8 hole made by the saw, before attaching two or more pieces together, do you know a source of 3/8 sheet metal plugs, or slugs to fill in the hole on the bottom panel of the weld?
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