|08-09-2012 03:33 PM|
Good info from oldbogie and MAN! does he ever write a book when he answers a question Anywho I have a 507" Cadillac that I just finished building, going to the dyno cell at the end of the month. The Cadillacs were built to run at 3500 rpm so the reciprocating parts didn't have to be forged. The worst thing is the castaloy rods and the rocker arm assembly. The crank is nodular iron and pretty much bullet proof...for a pretty warm build.
Obviously there's not a lot of hipo parts so you either buy very expensive forged race type rods @ $600 or use the PEP 4340 forged rods with ARP cap screw bolts. On the MTS and Cadpower forums many members have used the PEP rods with good results........so I bought a set from Falcon Global on ebay for $220 shipped.
Now being the skeptic that I am and full well knowing that these are "off shore" I polished the beams (length wise) had my machinist work them over....mag'd, clearances checked, re-sized the big end and run them through a real shot peen cabinet, not just bead blast them as some shops do and call them shot peened. He said they looked like a decent part, the dyno and time will tell. BUT, if you're building a small/big block Chevy/Ford (you didn't say) I would go with the good Scat rods, they have a great reputation and are "usually" ready to go out of the box but I would get them checked also......ok, geeeez now I'm writing a book.
|08-09-2012 12:58 PM|
What you pay for in the more mainstream outlets like SCAT and Eagle is some assurity that they will perform as advertised. They get to that point by inspecting the output of the Chinese manufacturer (who may do this themselves) to determine the quality of the produced part against a standard. The well known name sellers take the number 1 quality parts and leave the rest. Kind of like how Toyota's production seconds of the Corolla become Chevy Nova's. So in a similar way all the other sellers of these Chinese parts take the less than premium quality parts and sell them at a discount (maybe as price is not a direct guarrantee of quality). Kind of like how O'Rilley's sells a 30 dollar Mexican made alternator or what have you for 160 dollars with a life time warrantee. If it works they made 130 bucks, if it gets warranted once they make 100 bucks, twice they make 60 bucks and so on. The problem with rods is that a failure costs the engine, but they'll replace the rods on warrantee, like that's a big help.
So anyway on a part for part basis the SCAT or Eagle is more expensive for what otherwise appears to be the same part because they put some money and time into an inspection process where these other guys take what they can get. That's not to say you wouldn't get a good set of rods, it's just that the probability of getting a good set is less.
And I'm not saying that White or PEP doesn't have a high quality requirement and perform or purchase some sort acquisition point inspection, then purposely under cut the market value price to try and get a foot hold in that market. This is an old technique used by nearly everyone in the business at some point to get themselves established. Whether they are doing this I have no idea. I just know how things are made and generally marketed and what warrantees really are (a customer paid insurance program of part performance) there are no free rides, at least not for long as all this stuff like all other stuff costs money to produce and market so anything selling under the market value has to absorb the difference somewhere. That absorption can be in part or service quality or the owners may decide to take less profit out per part. Discounters cut the per part profit margin to the edge and depend upon high volume to make the income level they want Wal Mart, Target, etc. comes to mind. But nobody can stay in the market by losing money on what they sell for very long. The discounters blow up fast if the quantity part of the equation crashes.
I haven't bought from many of these import outfits, I stay pretty close to guys that have built a reputation whether they source parts in the US or China. I have no problem paying made in US prices for made in the US parts, I have little problem with outfits that sell made in China parts at made in China prices, what really offends me are those companies that expect you to pay made in the US prices for made in China parts. While in a political sense I really dislike how the fat cats have moved manufacturing off shore and destroyed the middle class in the process, this is something I can't control. Being a life time Harley guy, I can say we were right about what the imports would do to the economy starting with our bit**ing way back in the late 1960's up to the present. But the bleeding of American jobs, technology, and wealth has gone so far from the rather innocent concept of "buy American" instead of less expensive imports that the situation is no longer recoverable and I, like everyone else, has to live in the new reality. Government is the last hold out of high wages and benefits; they too will have to give in because the overall market place cannot sustain the current tax load against the lowered income levels of the non-government sector which is what really carries the government. For a government worker to pay taxes and claim they also contribute to the cost of government is circular argument, you can't tax yourself to pay for yourself any more than you can take the power from a generator to run the motor that runs the generator. Oh well I'm off topic here, time to cap it off.
My always recommendation to the guy building on a shoestring budget is to put the heavy money into the bottom end. A quality block, crankshaft, damper, and especially rods and pistons are essential to keeping the motor in one piece thus avoiding the physical and financial loss from the bottom end blowing up. You can always run less desirable heads, intake, carburetor, distributor, etc where a failure is inconvenient but not disastrous. However, with the head it’s important to use quality valves, springs, retainers and locks as failure of these parts can also take the bottom end out. For the guys that can afford everything, my build process on the bottom end is the same, we just strap on the high end, top end goodies right away instead of having to budget for them over some time period.
|08-09-2012 09:33 AM|
pep 6" H beam4140 forged rods
Anyone use these or have any comments, they are 5 year warrantied, street or strip use, unlimited miles. Has anyone had any experiences with these, and they come with7/16 cap screw also. These are sold at white performance. Any help is appreciated