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Topic Review (Newest First)
09-09-2012 01:39 PM
Thumpin455 I use photobucket or imgur to post pics. You can attach them if they arent too big with the buttons on the reply window. There is a limit of something like 2mb for pics on here, so if they are too large, they wont show.

The 65 is just one of the cars I have. Someday in the not too distant future some of them will find new homes, but they will be drivable and look decent. If they arent drivable then the chances they will get crushed or just rust in someone elses back yard are too great. For a while I was like a crazy cat person taking in any stray, but with cars. Gotta thin the herd at some point.

65 is my favorite year of GTO, always wanted one growing up and now I am building it for my father in law to enjoy. I have the LeMans to build for me, so we will both have 65s to drive next year.
09-09-2012 08:05 AM
section 8 I thought I was on the right track uploading a pic ..it failed. Shoot me your email n ill send some pics of my 68. I had a 65 gto once. I've lost my heel from kicking myself in the a** for selling it
09-09-2012 07:34 AM
section 8 The actual cam specs are...216/228 at@050 and .454/.480 lift and 112 lobe separation
09-09-2012 07:13 AM
section 8 Btw I haven't figured out how to post pics yet ...it looks more like something from the road warrior lol
09-09-2012 07:10 AM
section 8 I was thinking of going with a 6 sp and leaning toward pro touring look up the red devil 69 camaro on u tube. Although the ls9 is a little out of my budget its a nice concept
09-07-2012 09:33 PM
Thumpin455 I read that you were running a 350, and you are on the right path to making decent power with it. You mght want to think about a different trans if you intend to put a 461 in your car. I have broken a ST10, M20 and an M21 with mild 455s. It will live a long time behind the 350 if you take good care of it. I went automatic because it only costs me $200 to rebuild one of those, and $400 minimum for a manual, plus the auto lives longer with lots of torque.

Got any pics of your car? You should post them up. Always wanted a first gen bird, make mine a 69.
09-06-2012 11:24 AM
section 8 I'm running a basically stock 69 350 30 over #47 heads 216/228 w.454/.470 lift @050 and I think the lobe separation is 112 or 113 an edelbrock p4b dual plane with a notch cut out between the secondaries and a 1406 edelbrock
09-06-2012 11:04 AM
section 8 I'm running a muncie m20.. wr with a 10 bolt safe t track 3.36 and 255 60 15 goodyear eagle st and gabriel heavy duty shocks on 1.5" or 2" lift 5 leaf spring
09-06-2012 10:49 AM
Thumpin455 With the old engine that only made about 540hp/590ftlbs, it hooked ok with 285 65 15 BFG drag radials. Not the best, they only did 1.7ish 60fts. This new engine smokes them like its on ice, half throttle smoke shows are the norm now, but those tires are old and hard. Bought them in 2002. Here is a half throttle vid before I got the body put back together after paint.

Slapper bars are really only intended to stop wheel hop, which should be hard to get with multi leaf springs. Mono leafs will hop around easy with enough power and some traction. To really hook the front end needs to come up somewhat easily, and if you can get the rear to lift instead of squat that helps too. Calvert bars or lift bars are the ticket to get the rear to go up. The lighter up front the better. Without sticky tires you are going to be doing John Force impressions with a 455.

My 70 GTO with 2.93 gears and stock converter in the Th400 would spin the 275 60 15 Kumho tires hard while rolling 35mph, it had a low compression 455 that made around 500ftlbs and approximately 400hp. That year Goat has a 90lb front bumper, so they are fun to get to hook.

Most Pontiac 350s I have been around can have traction issues easily, they have the same stroke as a 400's 3.75" with a smaller bore. They like to grunt with that crank. As a side note, its super fun to tell a chevy guy you have a 350 crank and rods in your 400 and its a 406. They get really confused.

I like these engines because you can run highway gears and dont need a big stall behind them, but they really like 2200-2800 stall. That means less stuff to buy, lower cruise RPM on the highway, and they use less gas because of it.
09-06-2012 09:50 AM
section 8 What did you do about it hookin up? I have an idea about some traction bars that would theoretically make the body squat in the rear.
09-06-2012 08:24 AM
Thumpin455 Damn right they can be built to make power up top, and they also make great low RPM grunt monsters. The 467 in my blue Formula is the former, makes a few ticks over 700hp on pump gas and will turn 7500 easily, but I dont take it up that high very often, no need to. It has ported 87cc E heads and a 270/272 solid roller in it with a good bottom end, so now the block is the weak link. Its a seriously fun engine but its a HUGE pain to drive on the street.

I prefer the iron headed 455s for having fun off the track, and for some bracket racing. Once the traction issue was figured out the old Blue Firebird was hard to beat with the previous iron headed 455 and a mild cam. The only sbc in my area that could run with it had a 6-71 on it. 3750lbs, mid 11s with a stock converter in the Th400. Lots of fun building for torque.
09-05-2012 07:35 AM
Mr. P-Body Thanks for the "vote of confidence". I DO try...

Spinn,

All this is interesting, but completely irrelevant to the Pontiac. Chevy "boys" nearly ALWAYS talk bad about the Pontiac. It's a turd and blows up. IF you build it like a small block, this is 100% true. If one were to delve into the actual history of the GM engine programs, you would know the small block and the Pontiac are "cousins", but on the "mother's side", not the father. The Pontiac could be viewed as a "small block on steroids". Mac McKellar "invented" the stamped rocker arm. Ed Cole saw it and improved it. The blocks are similar in length, but that's all. The Chevy has a short rod and compact intake/head design, which, as we all know, works VERY well. The Pontiac has a "tall" deck (10.240", a full .040" taller than a "tall deck" BIG BLOCK). The Pontiac also enjoys a "long" connecting rod and very good internal geometry (rod/stroke ratio and "rod angle", to be specific). The Pontiac exhaust port is the single "worst" design feature. The intake port, on the other hand, is among the better designs from the era. These last two factors are "why" the Pontiac makes such good low-speed power, AND why it isn't as good "up high" without a TON of porting. The aftermarket heads have "fixed" that particular problem in a variety of ways. Aftermarket connecting rods, too, have changed EVERYTHING. It's not uncommon now, to see a 475 CID engine making well over 700 HP on 93 octane, and "shifting" above 7,000 RPM. The old "myth", "Can't rev a Pontiac" simply isn't true either. With good heads and bottom-end parts, they rev with any. Dirty Bird shifted at 9,200 every pass.

I know I get a little carried away, but time has come for re-education of "the masses". Things aren't what they "were". We've already climbed over Dodge, and are aiming at the Fords. At 500 CID, using production-style cylinder heads, Pontiacs are again 100% "competitive". As the Warp-6 and Ram Air V heads get perfected, we won't even need the qualifier "production heads"!

Jim
09-04-2012 06:00 PM
Thumpin455
Quote:
Originally Posted by section 8 View Post
did you read the article where smokey made a fiero 4cyl turbo ..instead of cooling the charge he heated it starting at the base of the carb and continuing thru the turbo to fully vaporize the fuel... 0 to 60 in less than 6 and 30mpg

Funny you mention that. Its one of the things I am working on with my 70 GTO, but not with gasoline because gas needs the 450F temps to fully vaporize. The turbo was more to keep the fuel from evaporating out of the carb than to add more air. You need some pressure to keep it in the carb and a turbo does that. 450F means exotic parts and more expense, so I am using a fuel that fully vaporizes below 200F to achieve the same thing. The other difference is I will eventually be using EFI. Pontiac engines work great for this because of the high velocity ports and great torque production. I'll let you know how it works out once I get the rest of the car up to date and legal.

If you build the Pontiac to maximize its bottom end and midrange you can keep the highway gears, drivability, and economy while still making it move. The number of sbc and bbc cars that I have beaten with grocery getter engines shifting under 5800 is growing, its been quite a few. They tell me it sounds like I am headed to the store for a loaf of bread. You can build them to RPM, but there is no need on the street unless you want to run single digits in the 1/4. What Jim says works great, his engines run pretty damn hard and long. When you get around to the 400 block he has some really good info.
09-04-2012 04:04 PM
section 8
section 8

I am planning a 461 kit for the 400 that was in the fb when I purchased it, originally a 350 car I wanted to stick with that. I've been looking for a few years for a so called #matching block and haven't been able to locate one. One day on craigslist I found a block someone started. The machine work was done and assembled, I located a pr of #13 head that were also done. Then I purchased a cam recommended by a local speed shop and noticed on the cam card that max rpm rating was 5400. Thinking that was a little low I started lookin for another cam to get the full potential out of the 350. I also wanted to find a oil pan and timing cover. I located a 350 eng, thinking that thousands have been scrapped during the "cash 4 clunkers" I better start grabbing up what I can,anyway I purchased it for $100.00 (thanks Ed) it turned out to be a new rebuilt 350. Being that I didn't know the grind of the cam and it having a 2bbl intake I pulled the cam (lucky I did the 1st cam bearing was stuck to the cam) so I bought a set of bearings and making sure the notches were lined up used the stuck bearing to install the new bearing(not recommended but worked) installed the cam and an old p4b dual plane edelbrock intake. I had Dan at Clutchdynamics in Lansing,Mi put a clutch together for my application, and it hooks up great! (Thanks again dan and jerry you guys do awesome work) I put it all together an fired it up. During the break in I noticed antifreeze on the floorboard and found some a** hole had poked a hole in the dr side freezeplug on the back of the head with a pick. But I still have a fresh block and heads and accumulated another complete 350( purchased for the alt/ps brackets and pullys and 2 other than the original 400 I pulled out and that's what brought me to this site as I was trying to figure which 400 block to use and found Mr P-Body to quite knowlegeable in this field. And again thanks to everyone who has responded to this post.........john
09-04-2012 01:16 PM
spinn Boost is a incredible way to get the acceleration you desire. My 305 c10 has an e force supercharger/blower unit pressing 6 psi. Really gets a heavy thing to move. The 305 is a notorious bomb, but add 5-10 psi and it is dynomite.

A performer sbc intake yeilded better results on mild cammed engines under 350" for me. The RPM intake worked for larger inch small block engines around 400+ inches. For larger cammed engines above 400 inches the open plane intake and 3600 stall combined to get the strongest all out pull. Big block performer intakes are made with larger ports than the small block already .

Stock rods going over 5500rpms should be peened. They will hold with arp fasteners.

Does the timing cover match the engine. Using a drivers side marked chrome cover in place of a 12' o clock oem orientation cover would retard the hell out of it. Use a piston stop find true tdc. Make your own indicator from a wire hanger. Use a dial back light and set your timing to verify correctness.
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