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Topic Review (Newest First)
10-05-2012 01:36 PM
sbchevfreak
Quote:
any idiot with enough time on their hands can be certified
.

Maybe where you are, here you have to put in a lot of work, time, and money, then hit a pass mark of 80% plus. Not very many "idiots" want to, or are capable of doing so.
10-04-2012 11:35 AM
91CamaroDude To bring some ending to this thread, I NEEDED a tstat to keep it cool....as soon as I put one in, it maintained a BETTER temp..still wasnt perfect (little tweaking of other things and it made it fine). But if anyone has come across this issue and you're running your motor with out one - PUT ONE IN
10-27-2011 11:19 PM
sbchevfreak ............................
10-27-2011 05:45 PM
ap72 Bogie I know that was completely unrelated to this topic but I couldn't help but chuckle, we've ALL been there.
10-27-2011 05:06 PM
oldbogie
Quote:
Originally Posted by stroker_SS
Dex-Cool wasn't used in GM vehicles until 1996, so it is safe to assume that any standard 350 would be better off with original green like the chart shows(lower), and all of the "universal, mix with any color, all makes all models" coolants are generally of the same chemical make up as Dex-Cool using an organic acid called "2-EHA". Take a look at the PDS for any of the universals and compare it to Dex-Cools. This isn't a personal attack and as long as I have been here you have usually been a great source of info, take it easy OB.
I missed the 1991 that's what you get when the old lady calls to ***** about a bowl I broke when I overloaded the dishwasher last night. So I'm typing with part of my brain being shriveled. Like who cares at this deep level, its open stock buy a new one and ask me for 20 bucks or whatever to pay you back. Why do women grind this crap to grist like I intended it as a personal affront to her?

Bogie
10-27-2011 04:57 PM
stroker_SS
Hey Oldbogie....

Dex-Cool wasn't used in GM vehicles until 1996, so it is safe to assume that any standard 350 would be better off with original green like the chart shows(lower), and all of the "universal, mix with any color, all makes all models" coolants are generally of the same chemical make up as Dex-Cool using an organic acid called "2-EHA". Take a look at the PDS for any of the universals and compare it to Dex-Cools. This isn't a personal attack and as long as I have been here you have usually been a great source of info, take it easy OB.
10-27-2011 04:53 PM
gmc1990rodder
Quote:
Originally Posted by John68040
They make plastic t-valves for this, I've got one in my car. You cut a section in the line where it goes to the heater core and clamp it in. It's got a threaded cap, and with an adapter you can screw on a garden hose. It makes flushing the coolant nice and easy.
I have used this adapter before not once but twice..once the cap failed the other the plastic tee cracked...no disrespect intended by no means but this is why i chose my way to do it..
10-27-2011 03:10 PM
cobalt327
Coolant flow too fast to cool??

Maybe not.

http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.c...=191640&page=6

The following is copied and pasted directly from the EMP Stewart Components website: http://www.stewartcomponents.com/index.html

Quote:
"Tech Tip #3 - Thermostats & Restrictors

Thermostats & Restrictors
We strongly recommend NEVER using a restrictor: they decrease coolant flow and ultimately inhibit cooling.

For applications requiring a thermostat to keep the engine at operating temperature, we recommend using a Stewart/Robertshaw high flow thermostat. This thermostat does not restrict flow when open. The Stewart/ Robertshaw thermostat enhances the performance of the cooling system, using any style of water pump. However, the Stewart Stage 1 high-flow water pump may require this thermostat to operate properly, and Stewart Stage 2, 3, and 4 water pumps simply will NOT operate with a regular thermostat because these pumps have no internal bypasses.

Stewart further modifies its thermostat by machining three 3/16" bypass holes directly in the poppet valve, which allows some coolant to bypass the thermostat even when closed. This modification does result in the engine taking slightly longer to reach operating temperature in cold weather, but it allows the thermostat to function properly when using a high flow water pump at high engine RPM.

A common misconception is that if coolant flows too quickly through the system, that it will not have time to cool properly. However the cooling system is a closed loop, so if you are keeping the coolant in the radiator longer to allow it to cool, you are also allowing it to stay in the engine longer, which increases coolant temperatures. Coolant in the engine will actually boil away from critical heat areas within the cooling system if not forced through the cooling system at a sufficiently high velocity. This situation is a common cause of so-called "hot spots", which can lead to failures.

Years ago, cars used low pressure radiator caps with upright-style radiators. At high RPM, the water pump pressure would overcome the radiator cap's rating and force coolant out, resulting in an overheated engine. Many enthusiasts mistakenly believed that these situations were caused because the coolant was flowing through the radiator so quickly, that it did not have time to cool. Using restrictors or slowing water pump speed prevented the coolant from being forced out, and allowed the engine to run cooler. However, cars built in the past thirty years have used cross flow radiators that position the radiator cap on the low pressure (suction) side of the system. This type of system does not subject the radiator cap to pressure from the water pump, so it benefits from maximizing coolant flow, not restricting it."
The OEM goes to a lot of trouble to balance the cooling system's performance to the demands put to it. The bottom line for me is to use a thermostat, have an adequately sized radiator w/adequate air flow into it, use a clutch fan and shroud if possible and avoid "pusher"-type electric fans, don't underdrive the water pump, use as high of a pressure cap as you can for the system you have, use an overflow/return catch tank, use antifreeze at the desired ratio or at least some type of water pump lubricant additive to keep the pump seals happy, and you'll rarely have a cooling problem
10-27-2011 01:16 PM
ap72
Quote:
Originally Posted by sbchevfreak
Unfortunately, this is some misinformation. The t-stat does affect the cooling of the coolant almost as much as it maintains heat. The t-stat stops coolant flow through the radiator when the engine temperature has dropped enough to close it. This allows the coolant in the radiator sufficient "soak" time to shed the heat that it has absorbed, and allows the coolant in the engine time to absorb sufficent heat from the combustion process. You can have all the airflow you want, but if you are pushing roughly 75 gpm or more (a SBC W/P is easily capable of this) through the rad, and the system only holds about 3 1/2 - 4 1/2 gallons, it will not cool down. This is not fancy, or "opinion" information, this is basic automotive theory.

My head is not "up my ***", I am both provincially and federally licenced as an Automotive Technician here in Canada, with about 17 or 18 years of hands on trade experience, including a 4 year compulsory apprenticeship training program.
Your head is up your ***, excessive coolant flow will not cause the coolant to retain more heat. What it will cause is for the system temperature to become more uniform thoughout, which is actually what you want.

And as someone that has a whole file folder full of certifications I know first hand any idiot with enough time on their hands can be certified. Its just like the guys that beat their chest proudly claiming 25+ years of experience- 25 years of doing it thr wrong way doesn't make it right.
10-27-2011 12:44 PM
oldbogie
Quote:
Originally Posted by 91CamaroDude
Well I think the thermostat did me wonders. Would have posted earlier but my battery decided to drain out on me and wouldnt let me start. I just never would have thought that a t-stat would be the solution I was looking for. Again thanks for all your guy's help and ideas here.

Cody
Welcome to the world of systems integration, no longer are cars made with any reserve capacity. The entire cooling system from air dams to thermostats and all the parts between function in a closely orchestrated balance to achieve an end, change anything in the orchestra and you get different and most often unpleasant results.

You have to remember this thing was designed to be cooled with Dex-Cool, not water and not green Prestone. These chemicals used as coolant greatly differ from each other and all from water as to how they gain and surrender heat. The thermostat is a simple device that regulates the rate of flow to maintain the set temperature, it's not an open or closed device but a regulating valve. Different coolants want to move through the engine at different velocities that optimize heat transfer at both the gaining and surrendering ends of the function. The thermostat within it's max flow capability and under that point will adjust the flow rate for the best heat transfer when the thermostat is selected in the proper range for the fluids. Typically the factory used 195 to 210 thermostats with Dex-Cool. Thermostat's from about 180 to 195 will keep up in a good range for pure water to pure Prestone. But for example ,to optimize pure Prestone, actually running a 210 thermostat would work better, this, however, is not a recommendation for pure Prestone (ethylene glycol base) especially if you live where the weather gets really cold as pure EG gets thick and slushy at sub zero temps becoming hard to pump till it gets warm, I'm just providing data points with pure EG not suggesting you use it.

Dex-Cool is really quirky stuff works really great when kept clean and free of air. Contaminated it will acidify and attack everything it contacts. So keeping it clean and airless is most important, that means you check it at the overflow tank, you never ever let that tank go empty. But obviously yours is gone so that isn't an issue other than the crap the old stuff formed is in the engine. Chemical cleaners are inadequate to the task, cleaning the cooling jackets needs to left to professional radiator shops with the tools to scrub the system out. Even that isn't as good as it needs to be, unfortunately the best way to clean gunked cooling passages is dissassembly of the engine and scrubbing the castings in a hot tank for cast iron and bake for aluminum. A huge effort for not having paid adequate attention to the cooling system. The days of taking cooling for granted are over and have been for 15-20 years already.

When using water to dilute coolant, use distilled or de-ionized water not tap water. Tap water is usually a hard water, that is it has chemical salts in it. These salts are reactive with metals, especially where different metals are involved such as cast iron and aluminum and/or brass and copper.

Bogie
10-27-2011 11:39 AM
sbchevfreak
Quote:
Originally Posted by ap72
The thermostat does NOT let the coolant cool down easier, whomever thinks that needs to pull their head out of their ***. On a street car a thermostat is necessary though to maintain enough heat in the engine, running too cool is just as bad as running too hot. As mentioned, system pressure reduces localized boiling, which is important, and airflow across the radiator is needed to remove the heat from the cooling system.

Unfortunately, this is some misinformation. The t-stat does affect the cooling of the coolant almost as much as it maintains heat. The t-stat stops coolant flow through the radiator when the engine temperature has dropped enough to close it. This allows the coolant in the radiator sufficient "soak" time to shed the heat that it has absorbed, and allows the coolant in the engine time to absorb sufficent heat from the combustion process. You can have all the airflow you want, but if you are pushing roughly 75 gpm or more (a SBC W/P is easily capable of this) through the rad, and the system only holds about 3 1/2 - 4 1/2 gallons, it will not cool down. This is not fancy, or "opinion" information, this is basic automotive theory.

My head is not "up my ***", I am both provincially and federally licenced as an Automotive Technician here in Canada, with about 17 or 18 years of hands on trade experience, including a 4 year compulsory apprenticeship training program.
10-27-2011 09:02 AM
MARTINSR I don't believe anyone mentioned the fan shroud. If you are "driving around town" you are likely not moving fast enough for air to cool the coolant in the radiator and you MUST have a fan shroud so the fan pulls the air THROUGH the radiator not from around it.

Brian
10-27-2011 08:53 AM
ap72 The thermostat does NOT let the coolant cool down easier, whomever thinks that needs to pull their head out of their ***. On a street car a thermostat is necessary though to maintain enough heat in the engine, running too cool is just as bad as running too hot. As mentioned, system pressure reduces localized boiling, which is important, and airflow across the radiator is needed to remove the heat from the cooling system.
10-27-2011 07:53 AM
91CamaroDude Well I think the thermostat did me wonders. Would have posted earlier but my battery decided to drain out on me and wouldnt let me start. I just never would have thought that a t-stat would be the solution I was looking for. Again thanks for all your guy's help and ideas here.

Cody
10-27-2011 05:32 AM
RippinRon
Quote:
Originally Posted by sbchevfreak
Make sure the chin spoiler and all air dams are in place. This era Camaro has a very small grille opening, and uses these pieces to direct airflow from under the bumper through the radiator core. If they are missing, it will overheat. You also need to have the t-stat in, for the reasons Cobalt mentioned.
I third this, been there done that! The chin spoiler is the most important part in keeping these cars cool while moving.
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