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Topic Review (Newest First)
10-18-2012 08:34 PM
timothale
460 info

I am not sure when ford retarded the camshaft. I had 75 and later 460's when I worked there, I bought a new one every year, I used to install a new double roller timing chain and gear set at straight up, no retard, the stock timing chains stretch after a few thousand miles. I seems like there were also rocker arm changes made during the production run, I don't remember which year. Ford used different pattern intake manifolds I liked to keep the square one and run a holly. My son still talks about when he was 8 years old and we were in heavy stop and go traffic and a new corvette pulled along side , driving in the parking spots and gravel to get along side at a red lite. I jumped the green lite a second with my van and the corvette couldn't keep up , then I slowed down and he had to stop at a parked car.
10-14-2012 09:44 PM
66GMC
Electronic Ignition

Ford introduced Duraspark (Duraspark I) electronic ignition as of about the 1974 model year, and were used well into the 80's IIRC.

The distributors were physically pretty much the same on 351M, 400, and 460 passenger and light truck engines of this vintage. The Ignition Modules were slightly differerent ... with varying numbers of connectors, etc, but all of them were compatible with this dist.

I can't even recall the details of why I chose to use the 1975 model (Motorcraft # DY-166B) other than it only had 2 connectors, and was identified by a GREY wiring tab where the wires attach to the module.

Ford had a "brighter idea" (TMR) in about 1977, when they went to using a cap adapter and larger diameter cap with male terminals on it. This larger diameter cap put more space between the terminals which significantly reduced cross-fire due to the hotter spark.

Here is a bit of a "parts list" of suggested goodies to do the swap:
Track down a "campaign" (TSB 80310, 80310S, 83524) distributor to fit a 1977 -82 351m / 400 pickup truck, which was specially calibrated to eliminate detonation / overheating. I'm *pretty sure* that it will have a tag# of E2PE-12127-AA, BA.
Quote:
From Alldata / Ford TSB #83-5-24:

New Initial Timing
Removed Replaced By Transmission Specification Usage
D7TE-12127-ALA E2PE-12127-BA Auto 10~ BTDC 49S
D9TE-12127-ATA E2PE-12127-AA Manual 6~ BTDC Cal.
D9TE-12127-ATA E2PE-12127-AA Auto 9~ BTDC Cal.
D7TE-12127-AMA E2PE-12127-BA Manual 6~ BTDC 49S
If it's still there, it will have a paper tag with "WIN" on the vacuum advance. I'm presuming that a reman distributor for this application would be the same calibration?


NAPA Reman # 482893


NAPA Echlin FA151 Cap adapter


FA134 Cap


FA144 Rotor


TP36 Ignition module (1975 LTD)


EC72 Module electrical connector (power)


EC127 Module electrical connector (to dist)


IC21 Ignition coil


EC238 Electrical Connector (coil)

I don't see the other electrical connector that connects directly to the distributor listed anywhere in my catalog. You may have to scavenge one from a wreck? ALL Duraspark distributors used the same connector here, I'm quite sure.

Spark Plug Wire Set:
I'm purposely omitting these, as you may have a straight or angled boot requirement ... depending on what manifolds or headers that you might want to use. NAPA Beldenmax are a very good wire, but are only a 7MM wire as an OEM replacement.
10-14-2012 07:20 PM
techinspector1
Quote:
Originally Posted by TommyK View Post
Yes the 72 D2VE heads are a one year only open chamber head which is detonation prone. I would strongly suggest finding a pair of early small chamber castings C8, C9, D0 or D1 closed chamber heads. Assuming you have a stock 72 bottom end this will raise your static compression ratio to approximately 9:1. D3 heads will work as well but they are large chamber and your compression will be 8:1 or less
Let's put some real numbers together. Lets assume a stock bore and stroke of 4.360" x 3.850". Further, lets assume that heads 1968 through 1971 were approximately 75 cc's and that heads 1972 and later were approximately 95 cc's. The 1972 D2VE heads were junk, so we'll throw them out. 1973 and later D3VE heads were OK.
Let's figure some static compression ratios just for grins....

Using early heads (75cc)
Cylinder volume (.7854) x 4.36 x 4.36 x 3.85 x 16.387 = 942 cc's
Chamber volume 75 cc's
Piston deck height volume (figured at 0.060" because of increased block deck height of 1972 and later blocks....(.7854) x 4.36 x 4.36 x .06 x 16.387 =15 cc's
Piston crown valve reliefs....estimate at 10 cc's
Head gasket....estimate at 10 cc's
942 + 75 + 15 + 10 +10 = 1,052 cc's
75 + 15 + 10 +10 = 110 cc's
Divide the larger by the smaller and find 9.56:1 SCR

Using later heads (95cc)
942 + 95 + 15 +10 +10 = 1,072 cc's
95 + 15 + 10 +10 = 130 cc's
Divide the larger by the smaller and find 8.25:1 SCR

So there is about 1 1/4 points of SCR between the early and the late heads on a stock bore and stroke 460.

If I were going to run the motor without tearing it down for a rebuild and correcting the horrible piston deck height and squish, I would use the later heads and a very short cam or the stock cam. That would allow the motor to operate well on junk pump gas without detonation. I'd be afraid of running 9.56:1, particularly with a short or stock cam. Of course, you could use a longer cam that would bleed off some of the cylinder pressure and make the motor less prone to detonation with with 9.56:1 SCR, but what I'm understanding here is that the OP has little or no expertise in that area.

So, bottom line, leave the cam alone and run the 95cc heads would be my advice.
10-14-2012 06:11 PM
lil-vulky what should i set the ignition timing at? and ok thanks i can run it on 98 octane just untill i get it going and moving then ill save up and find some heads
10-14-2012 04:27 PM
TommyK Any head from a 429 or 460 which originally came with a carburetor will interchange on any 429 or 460 block.

To avoid detonation use the highest octane pump gas available and don't get too aggressive with the ignition timing. With those headers you will have a hard time hearing detonation if it is occurring.
10-14-2012 02:56 PM
lil-vulky once i buy a distributor and new plugs if it still runs rough ill take it in to get the carby tuned and timing done then they will be able to sort it out, kinda hard to tell why its running rough or if its missing because its so dam loud with the exhaust lol. was looking around and cant really find any other heads for sale for cheap . . . i found these "ford 460 edelbrock alloy heads 95 cc chambers 292cc intake ports 2.190 intake valves 1.760 exhaust valves1.540 springs .700 lift maxtt" these are the only heads i can find for sale, these cost like $1500 but i have no idea if these heads are good or if all 460s have the same block setup or if ill need to do work to that for it to run good,

how can i reduce chances of detonation with my current setup? just want it running before i start making more engine upgrades really, still need to hook up gearbox linkage get a drive shaft and few other things and havnt got much money at the moment so need to prioritise what to get so i can get it moving and cost effiecent.
10-14-2012 12:37 PM
TommyK Yes the 72 D2VE heads are a one year only open chamber head which is detonation prone. I would strongly suggest finding a pair of early small chamber castings C8, C9, D0 or D1 closed chamber heads. Assuming you have a stock 72 bottom end this will raise your static compression ratio to approximately 9:1. D3 heads will work as well but they are large chamber and your compression will be 8:1 or less which is not good if you have performance upgrades in mind.

Please don't take offense but it seems you are short on experience and long on issues with this engine. Do you have someone with some mechanical experience you could call on to help you sort things out and diagnose the miss?
10-14-2012 02:33 AM
lil-vulky Have been looking around and from what iv read my 460 is the bad one with the worst heads ..... is the block the same as all 460s? like can i just bolt on new heads and intake and itl be back to good again? and how bad are these heads? does that mean its going to wreck my engine because of detonation . . . also how can i stop that? i mean i have open exhausts and a holley 750 carb and i run it on 91 octane and going to get a HEI dizzy because its currently missing/running rough/running on like 7 cylinders when i give it a rev. . .or its the sound of detonation? i duno what that sounds like lol jst doesnt run right when i give it heaps of revs like its running on 7 cylinders. i just dont want to blow the engine i want it driveable reliable and road legal without blowing before i start modding the engine and changing the heads but if these heads are that bad ill change them i just dont want to ruin the whole engine . . .
10-14-2012 12:06 AM
lil-vulky
Quote:
Originally Posted by xxllmm4 View Post
No answers for ya, just wanted to say thats sweet! You may get a kick out of this Release The Draguar! Building a Blown Jaguar Rat Rod - Roadkill Episode 7 - YouTube
thats awesome
10-13-2012 11:56 PM
lil-vulky grrrrr so after having a look at what else needs doing i noticed when u blow down exhaust number 2 it goes straight out exhaust number 7 and vice versa, all other exhausts aint like this. . . . i started panicing but a mate of mine said this is normal? its made to heat up the intake manifold for better ignition or something? is this right or is it broked?
10-13-2012 09:51 PM
xxllmm4 No answers for ya, just wanted to say thats sweet! You may get a kick out of this
10-13-2012 09:15 PM
lil-vulky also just looking at my engine is there ment to be a tenisoner to tighten the belts? it currently only has 1 belt which is for the alternator but i need one for the waterpump but how do i put it on and keep it tight? . . . anyone know a link how to do it
10-13-2012 08:38 PM
lil-vulky also is this a good distributor to buy? and does this have points? no idea what HEI is . . . HEI Distributor To Suit Ford BB V8 Engines | Trade Me


here are some pictures of my engine with hoses and things im not sure where to go are, i have marked in red the numbers are for the same thing but couldnt see both ends on the picture also i have no idea what or where to put that alternator wire thing like wheres the voltage regulator or does it just go straight to the battery or where coz atm its not charging the battery













10-13-2012 07:58 PM
lil-vulky there are so many random hoses which are blocked or not attached and have no idea where or what they do and also i jst realised there is no waterpump belt. . . . have to buy one tomorrow lucky iv only had it running for short periods so fingers crossed it never over heated.

think it needs new points also but i might just buy a whole new distributor setup? if so which is the best to get?

also are these spark plugs what i need? ford 460 spark plugs F SERIES (8) | Trade Me
10-13-2012 06:10 PM
lil-vulky
Quote:
Originally Posted by TommyK View Post
What year 460?

Post head and block casting numbers if you aren't sure.
these are the numbers i have found, on the block was 1j14z on the heads was d2ve-aa. other numbers i found were, DIF, 3 dove 9425 b f4 which was on the intake

are any of them right? or where abouts can i find the ones im looking for?
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