|10-22-2012 05:16 PM|
|LTorree||I kind of wished my situation would have reflected a bracket to hold or balance the starter, but the vehicle did not come with one in place. In fact I have gone through several starters and even changed the plate as it too was chewed up. Every replacement starter I get is the small made in Mexico type that burns out fast or the bendix just don't engage properly. I wish I can find an old Delco type. My 89 Chevy pickup is a 5.7, with a 5 speed standard transmission with the starter bolting into the transmission and still does not have a bracket at the other end. I hope I don't end up with the same problem. I think my best bet is to find a delco starter at a junk yard with an offset bolt on pattern and get a bracket that will fit. If that fails I guess the SUV just got to go to the junkyard too. Thanks for all the help.|
|10-21-2012 09:59 PM|
this is the starter bolt hole that usually cracks. or gets stripped.
I highly recomend you remove the engine and put it on a engine stand
so you can repair the hole and threads properly.
Inspect the boss to see if it is cracked at all.
If it is c racked It will need to be welded.
if it is not cracked it the hole can be drilled and tapped for a
heli coil insert... then installing a stud with the proper shaft shoulder
knerling ( just like a GM starter bolt) can be used. or the correct starter motor bolts. Make sure the Mid plate engine plate does not interfer with the starter motor mounting on the engine correctly.
Install the GM rear starter end brace or ( mini starter) fabricate your own as required. Failure to support the starter at 3 points will result in that hole strippin out again or worse the boss cracking off completely.
I been thru this. You cannot repair that hole while working with the car on a hoist or working under the car.
REMOVE the engine and fix it right. Do not try to heli coil it if its cracked already.
look close. If you cannot do basic fabrication to fabricate a custom made mini starter motor end support bracket similar to the factory GM bracket pay some one who can to do it. ( you risk destroying the engine block)
If you cannot proerly redrill and tap correctly for the heli coil take the block to a machine shop. It has to be drilled and tapped straight with teh right drill and tap for the heli coil Get all new starter bolts. Get a new starter motor if the nose or drive is damaged at all. Make sure the starter motor is mounted right and the drive engages the flywheel perfectly. You need a new flywheel now anyways so yank the motor out and do it right. You will only need to do it once. If you do it right.
if you have to go the old style starter mounting route
The old style SBC starter mounting style uses the old style 1956 starter motor
may or may not match up to your flywheel. May have to create your own custom plate to get teh 1956 style starter motor mounted in the rightr positon to engage your BBC flywheel. A custom made mid mount engine plate is a possibility. AGain the end of that starter must be supported by a brace jsut lie the GM starter is. Find the threaded hole in the side of the engine block where it mounts to. The OEM GM BBC starter motor brce is a starting point to fabricate your own for a mini starter end support.
2 starter bolts are not enough. Some of the BBC truck starters use 3 starter bolts ( a three bolt starter nose) and the end support bracket to keep the GM starer motor from twisting on the bolts.
That flywheel is history.. replace... Its possible the mid plate was interfeering with correct starter motor mounting
The lack of a end brace always results in what you got. Mini starter or not.,
Posting jpg pictures. I resized your pic using infranview. to "desktop size" and increased the JPG compression.
its now 1/4 the file size and loads 5 times faster and is just as clear. Big pictures are a pain for any one on dial up or who $$$$pays for data$$$$.
Please resize and re save you pics at a lower say 50% jpep compression. before posting online
Looks like those transmission lines need attention too. The rubber hose will fail. replace with hard line. Its not that hard to do.
Now that you'll be yanking the motor out now anyways......
|10-21-2012 08:04 PM|
|dasyhard||Thanks for the info....the vehicle is a prostreet 56 chevy with a 540 Dart block, turbo 400 and Gear Vendors Overdrive. The replacement starter is a MSD 5095 mini starter and the flexplate will be a J.W. Performance Transmissions 93005 168 Tooth Flywheel for Chevy which is what the tech at Summit Racing recommended. You mentioned that aftermarket starters won't match up with your suggested plate, correct? If so, than I'll have to look into what Firebird suggested.|
|10-21-2012 07:28 PM|
Anyway, what type of vehicle is this? It look like an engine mid mount plate. It wouldn't help the starter, the brace that would help is attached to the other end by one of the through bolts that hold the starter together. The through bolt would have a stud attached to the end, as shown in the image below:
The other end of the brace bolts to a threaded hole in the block:
|10-21-2012 05:16 PM|
|dasyhard||I don't know if you were referring to my photos but I decreased the size. Is the plate shown here an actual support of the starter?|
|10-21-2012 12:39 PM|
How much zoom you got cranked into yours, anyway?? Might be time for an eye Dr. appt. LOL
The image is 488 x 206, click on image to see source.
Below is how it appears on my Firefox browser:
Just about right IMO for enough detail to show if someone wanted to fab their own.
Re the brace: The starter brace is a given- that's why I showed a photo of it and partly why I linked to the page on starters.
|10-21-2012 11:21 AM|
Resize your pictures before posting . The file size and resolution is way too big. Takes too long to load. 640x480 is plenty.
A free download for resizing and managing pictures.
might last a long time.
They need a brace too. The twisting force is what kills them. Fab your own.
All the starters need 3 support points.
|10-21-2012 05:04 AM|
If the cracked hole has good metal, drill/tap it and use a stud, not another bolt. That will put less stress on the hole and might last a long time.
The starter brace is shown below; it bolts to the back of the starter (the end towards the front of the vehicle, in other words) and connects it to the engine block. It's made for a stock type starter. Aftermarket mini starters generally won't work w/the stock brace.
One other option for a starter is a factory permanent magnet-type starter. Smaller, but still w/good power. Being lighter, it puts less stress on the mounting area. IIRC, someone wrote that ordering a starter for a 2000 4.3L S-10 will get you one that fits a SBC w/a 153T flexplate/flywheel.
|10-21-2012 03:59 AM|
|dasyhard||Thank you for this valuable information F-Bird, but if you take a look at my attached photos, there is a bracket that sits tight against my starter after I removed the starter. Please view it and let me know if this brace serves its purpose. If not, than I will take your advice and go with the Eckler's starter plate.|
|10-20-2012 06:33 PM|
If you choose to weld repair the cracked/broken starter motor bolt hole boss on the block there is a special alloy welding rod for this. Find a local shop that repairs and welds cast iron.
You will probabily need to remove the engine and bring it to them for repair.
Next time install the support brace.
|10-20-2012 06:23 PM|
Chevy Engine Starter Plate Kit, Small Block Engine To Turbo Hydra-Matic Transmission, 1955-1957 - Eckler's Classic Chevy Parts
This should fit an work on BBC too. Don't forget the end brace.
|10-20-2012 06:12 PM|
All GM starters came wih a factory brace bracket to support the front of the starter motor.
This bracket keeps the starter from twisting when cranking.
When you leave this required brace off, the starter motor twists on teh two starter bolts and cracks the
outer starter bolt hole boss on the block.
The fox once the outer bolt hole is cracked is to run a old style 55 chev starter motor that mounts to the trans bell housing instead of the engine block. There is a shee4t metal spacer plate that allows you to adapt this old style starter motor to a later V8. The spacer plate adapter plate goes between the engine and transmission bell housing. You still need a brace on the end of the starter motor to the block at the other end to take up the twisting force.
The small body mini starter should have this end brace too. Two bolts are not enough alone to suport the starter when its cranking/twisting on the bolts.
This adapter plate that allows using the old style starter motor can be bought over the internet.
have to search for the site.
The other alternative is to remove the engine and casti iron weld repair the cracked outer sterter bolt hole and redrill and tap. AND USE THE FRIGGIN $10 end brace on your starter motor.
Thats probily in your tool box somewhere.
If the OEM brace does not fit your mini stater fabricate as required using it as a start.
ALL trhe starters require 3 sopport points or the nose of the starter and or the starter bolt hole will be damaged.
|10-20-2012 05:09 PM|
Sorry to hear that you have a major problem but I'm afraid I can't give you any solutions. Hopefully, someone on this site can.
My situation stems from misalignment of the starter to the flexplate due to incorrect shimming or no shimming at all. I don't think it's the bolts because they seem to be tight. The gears on both starter and flexplate are damaged and one tooth on each gear (both starter and flexplate) are missing. Thanks for the info and I hope you find a less costly remedy.
|10-20-2012 04:48 PM|
|LTorree||I have a similar problem. Changed the starter and still have the meshing noise. Took off the cover plate and disconeted the coil wire and used a jumper starter button to engage the starter to check on the tooth meshing of the starter onto the gear plate. I found out that the outer bolt of the offset starter bolt seemed loose and caused the starter to move when engaging. I tried to tighten but still moved while engaging. Found out that the hole has a crack to which allowed movement of the bolt a little while the starter engaged. Now, my question to the experts would be how do I fix the crack on the block? I hate to change the entire short block. Is it possible to apply a bracket at the end of the starter motor to the block like how some older model chevys use to have? Or is there some sort of epoxy that would fix the crack? Can I use a tap and try and creat a deeper thread and use a longer bolt? Appreciate any help and advice. It is a 96 GMC yukon 5.7 automatic 2 wheel type.|
|10-17-2012 04:54 PM|
|dasyhard||Thanks for the feedback. Since the starter is old and the flywheel is damaged, I've decided to replace both parts and ensure I have the correct bolts and shimmed properly so it's engaged correctly. I ordered the MSD 5095 to replace the hitachi starter. I had a great deal on the hitachi so this is why I installed it. Thanks again.|
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