Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board - Reply to Topic
Hotrodders.com -- Hot Rod Forum



Register FAQ Search Today's Posts Unanswered Posts Auto Escrow Insurance Auto Loans
Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board > Tech Help> Transmission - Rearend> 200-4R Build Finally Begins!
User Name
Password
lost password?   |   register now

Thread: 200-4R Build Finally Begins! Reply to Thread
Title:
  
Message:
Trackback:
Send Trackbacks to (Separate multiple URLs with spaces) :

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name (usually not your first and last name), your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Additional Options
Miscellaneous Options

Topic Review (Newest First)
08-12-2013 06:33 PM
dwwl That looks like a lot of fun rebuilding that lower. If I have to rebuild mine again i'll have to do that, so i'll have extra fun. I will remember that doubling of wave spring trick. I haven't had the clunk, but i'll remember it. I did double up the gear selector spring which made shifting gears stiffer, and I like that. I,v e applied that trick to my stand by tranny as well. I used the deep pan and put the filter on the bottom of the pan by putting 3/4 inch spacer cut from a filler tube seal. fit like a glove. I've modified that filter three times now and this turned out the best. Love hearing about all the different things done to these 200-4r's.
08-04-2013 10:43 AM
TexasT How is your build coming along?

I was able to get a smoking deal on a torque converter for mine and the selectives and washer kit came to try to tighten up my lower section. I ended up putting red Raybestos stage 1 clutches in the direct and tan borg warner in the rest of the places, and got a black carbon band. I got the bearing set from here
Transmission Bearing KIT, 2004R, 1976-85, 6 Bearings 54201B
to replace the roller bearings. There is a bushing in the lower planet that is recommended to be replaced with a bearing

and the one in the other planetary was fun too as I found it necessary to remove the planets to get old out and new in.


You haven't had fun until you did this.

I was also told to double up the wave spring on the low/rev piston to soften the 'clunk' as it goes into reverse.
07-22-2013 08:29 PM
dwwl No, you've got a good core. A 86 or87 would of had some minor upgrades, but if you rebuild with some new better hard parts, bigger valves and better clutches and upgraded pump, you could have a good tranny. Your tranny should have the governor set up for (calibrated) for 3.73 gears. Stator tube should be replaced, when you upgrade the pump. I went overboard on my build of my second tranny. Its the one I put in my nova. It got 5 forward, 9 direct, 3 overrun, 3 fourth clutches and wide 2nd band. I know some say that the thin steels are subject to heat warping, but I run low thermostat, deep pan and large coolers. You got to remember, you're going to have to spend time on the minor little things to make this all work. You will have to move the cross member back and drill new holes. I had to even notch the tang on the cross member so I could reach one of the pan bolts. Nothing is easy. If you don't like the challenge, for get it. Good luck.
07-22-2013 08:35 AM
zildjian4life218
Quote:
Originally Posted by dwwl View Post
The cq was from a ss monte from 1984 or 5. Its ok, but its one of the early versions of the 200 4r. Its a good rebuilder if you throw some bigger valves, better red clutches and upgraded the pump. Don't go cheap on it or you will pay later. You need to read up on the 200 before you rebuild it. I up the clutch count on mine. I rebuilt the pump to 10 vane from 7. Hardened rings and relieved it. I can tell you that if you use the bigger valves, do not drill out the separator plate if you use the bigger 2nd gear servo, or you will get shifts that are a little rough. Just revamped a deep pan for my toy. I even built my own deep filter so it sits on the bottom of the pan. I didn't like the idea of using the 700 filter. I liked the idea of the 200 filter feeding from the top, but sitting on the bottom of the pan. That way the garbage won't be sucked into the filter. It took a while to get it figured out, but it worked fine. Have fun with it. I've even got a spare one I rebuilt.
So it is still a step below the infamous "CZF" trans?
07-21-2013 08:06 PM
dwwl The cq was from a ss monte from 1984 or 5. Its ok, but its one of the early versions of the 200 4r. Its a good rebuilder if you throw some bigger valves, better red clutches and upgraded the pump. Don't go cheap on it or you will pay later. You need to read up on the 200 before you rebuild it. I up the clutch count on mine. I rebuilt the pump to 10 vane from 7. Hardened rings and relieved it. I can tell you that if you use the bigger valves, do not drill out the separator plate if you use the bigger 2nd gear servo, or you will get shifts that are a little rough. Just revamped a deep pan for my toy. I even built my own deep filter so it sits on the bottom of the pan. I didn't like the idea of using the 700 filter. I liked the idea of the 200 filter feeding from the top, but sitting on the bottom of the pan. That way the garbage won't be sucked into the filter. It took a while to get it figured out, but it worked fine. Have fun with it. I've even got a spare one I rebuilt.
07-21-2013 04:24 PM
zildjian4life218 I came across a second core today. The code is 5cq. Malibu racing says its from an ss. Is there anything in it that makes it stronger or more desirable?
12-12-2012 10:02 AM
dwwl i rebuilt my own 200 4r and its been working just fine. read the book read the book. take your time, keep it in order. keep it clean, and double ckeck everthing (twice). talked to a tranny fella and he told me how people started working on their own tranny and then screwed it up and then thought he could fix it. I'm retired so time wasn't a problem. while my toy stayed warm in the garage, i built the tranny. lots of fun. so much so, that i built a second one. extra clutches bigger valves upgraded relieved pump now that i've done mine, i can't figure out why more of us are not using the 200 4r. IL kept my 350 tranny put away incase my kids someday want to put it back to stock after im gone. but for now i've got my cake (tranny) and eating (driving) it to.
11-03-2012 10:21 AM
TexasT
Quote:
from matt69cutlass at oldspwoer.com

Re: Drilling 200-R front drain
Remove the pump, disassemble and remove front bushing and seal. Take a 5/16 and enlarge the drainback hole, take the drill and slightly "wiggle" the drill to elongate the drain hole. Flip the pump over and drill the intersecting drain hole to match the front. Once this is all done install a new bushing, making sure it doesn't cover the drain hole (now you see the reason for elongating the hole) and install a new seal. A seal retainer from a late model 4L60/4L60E would be a wise addition.
Thought this of interest.

also, this. Kinda long but it has a bunch of part numbers and such. I signed up for the mailing list but was unable to find his posts on the build from he77. Maybe someone else has a link.

The Monte Carlo Mailing List: Tech Articles
11-03-2012 07:14 AM
TexasT I want to give a big thanks to SSedan64 for the input. Great info.

Also I have run across another information packed place and while not 200 4r specific it does have some info on clutches and how they have different purposes and needs.
700R4 4L60E 4L80E How To Build High Performance Transmission III - Trutechtrans.com

There are several parts to the article but this is wwhere static and dynamic are discussed.

I have come across several different bands and would like some input. Both appear to be the 2 1/4" wide variety but have different clutch material.
Red Alto appears cheaper But I have read of the carbon metallic being "the next best thing to sliced bread".
http://www.altousa.com/images/new_products/np84.pdf
Any thoughts?

Blue Plate Clutches from Raybestos? Any input?
http://www.redrider.us/RaybestosBlue2-1.jpg
http://www.redrider.us/RaybestosB2.jpg
10-27-2012 04:19 AM
SSedan64
Quote:
Originally Posted by zildjian4life218 View Post
thanks for the reply ssedan. What causes the accumulator spring to break and what will happen when it does. I never drove the car I pulled the trans from so idk how it shifted or acted.

Also I noticed that the forward drum on Jake's site is $299 where as CKperformance has theirs listed at $389. Is there a difference between the two?
Just fatigue from hydraulic Pr. slamming them back & forth. Some possibly from defects in the spring material.

Not sure who makes the Forward Drums on Jake's site, don't have any Info about them.
10-24-2012 08:33 PM
zildjian4life218
Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasT View Post
Low budget at this time for me. Our oldest daughter went to college this fall. Money isn't something I have much of right now. I just want to get mine rolling again.
As a recent college grad I feel your pain. At least I got 6 months to save up before I have to start paying back all those school loans! I am gonna start putting money away ever week so that come january I should have all the parts for this trans to get it put back together and hopefully ran on a dyno somewhere to verify everything is peachy with it. I wonder if I could just run it on my engine test stand and monitor the line pressure... hmmm
10-24-2012 08:20 PM
TexasT
Quote:
Originally Posted by zildjian4life218 View Post
What hard parts are you replacing and are you doing the dual feed mod?
My budget isn't allowing for a billet forward at this time but if I could afford it I would use one and do the dual feed. I think my stuff looks good. I do have a used billet servo I will be using. Might have to get a new rod if the clearance isn't good. other than that I am going with just clutches and seals. I found a local place to cut apart my torque converter and clean it out.

Low budget at this time for me. Our oldest daughter went to college this fall. Money isn't something I have much of right now. I just want to get mine rolling again.
10-24-2012 07:24 PM
zildjian4life218
Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasT View Post
I was given the tip about the bucket on one of those links. Another is to use a brake drum that the tail fits in but I didn't have one. Check out the gnttype.org link. He has some very good tips for reassembly. I am going to place a call to David Husek when I get to the reassembly stage. I think mine has been overhauled before as the clutches look pretty new.

Mine will go into my Regal. It has a 700r4 in it now but came with a 2004r when it was new.
It is a turbo v6.
What hard parts are you replacing and are you doing the dual feed mod?
10-22-2012 05:41 PM
TexasT I was given the tip about the bucket on one of those links. Another is to use a brake drum that the tail fits in but I didn't have one. Check out the gnttype.org link. He has some very good tips for reassembly. I am going to place a call to David Husek when I get to the reassembly stage. I think mine has been overhauled before as the clutches look pretty new.

Mine will go into my Regal. It has a 700r4 in it now but came with a 2004r when it was new.
It is a turbo v6.
10-22-2012 02:12 PM
zildjian4life218
Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasT View Post
My spring came out like that too. I was told it is pretty common. I was going to reuse the plate with a new spring. I have been told to replace any steels that have bluing or hot spots. I haven't taken mine out yet.

Check out my journal for pix of mine.
ugh why didn't I think of using a 5 gal bucket? Man that would have made it a lot easier and less messy haha. Looks like your stator support held up rather well. What kind of engine hp/tq are you gonna be putting your 2004r behind?
This thread has more than 15 replies. Click here to review the whole thread.

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:02 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
Copyright Hotrodders.com 1999 - 2012. All Rights Reserved.