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Topic Review (Newest First)
11-11-2012 08:29 PM
Mertz Thanks guys. It is a lot of fun to learn about all this stuff. I once owned a restored 67 Malibu SS and although it was one of my dream cars it wasn't that much fun because there was nothing for me to do and figure out how to fix.

I worked in a "service station" in high school where we actually did some mechanical work and it was what i really liked over pumping gas for people that came in and wanted "2 buckets worth". Gas was 25 cents and that would give you about a half a tank, enough to go crusin for the night and then some.

I sometimes tell my wife that I am disappointed because I haven't turned a wrench for 6 months. Fly fishing does fill that hole partially but not completely.

This is a great website. I can see how many more people are signing in since I started. Sometime over 1000 people looking. Thanks to all the people who organized the site and keep it running. There is a lot of knowledge here that can be shared by a lot of enthusiast.
11-11-2012 06:28 PM
cobalt327
Quote:
Originally Posted by techinspector1 View Post
Everyone on this board has "been there, done that". None of us were born knowing this stuff.
No truer words have been spoken on this thread. Don't sweat it even for a minute, Mertz. Chalk it up as a lesson learned and move on. Before you're done you'll be an expert on all this.
11-11-2012 03:46 PM
techinspector1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mertz View Post
Thanks for putting up with me on this.
Everyone on this board has "been there, done that". None of us were born knowing this stuff.
11-11-2012 03:43 PM
Mertz What an idiot I turned out to be!!!!!! Installed the gear just like it showed on the instructions with the square side to the left because I could not find a dot on either side. I went online to look for better instructions and found out there is not supposed to be a dot. If you use the square key way you look for a square mark, the round keyway a round mark and the triangle keyway a triangle mark. As it turns out I did have the gear on backwards. I took my magnifying glass and found the triangle mark on the back of the gear. After some persuasion I got the gear off and flipped it over. I got the O mark aligned with the dot on the cam gear. As it turns out the #1 piston is in the same spot as it was when I had the gear backwards. I feel a lot better about the alignment now.

Thanks for putting up with me on this.
11-11-2012 11:14 AM
cobalt327 You might want to look at it under good lighting and magnification to be sure the mark isn't just very light.
11-11-2012 11:11 AM
cdminter59
283 Assembly

You have three key slots on the crank gear. Usually the the key on the left has a square retards the timing. The key on the right with triangle advances the timing. The center key with the dot is straight up 0 degree advance. If the gear is not marked I would take it back and get another one that has the markings. If you installed it with the center key, when you install the timing cover and the balancer the line on the balancer should be on 0 on the scale.
11-11-2012 10:42 AM
cobalt327
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mertz View Post
The problem I am having is that the crank gear does not have a dot so I am assuming the correct position to have it set is with #1 at TDC and then align the dot on the cam gear so it is at 6.
Gotta be a dot somewhere, I would think. You've looked at both sides, it's not on backwards?

Otherwise I have to say you need another crank gear w/the index marked on it. W/o the mark the chances of installing the cam out of phase is just too great IMHO.
11-11-2012 10:38 AM
Mertz The problem I am having is that the crank gear does not have a dot so I am assuming the correct position to have it set is with #1 at TDC and then align the dot on the cam gear so it is at 6.
11-11-2012 01:45 AM
cobalt327 One note about pumped up lifters. They are pumped up after the engine runs, right? If they would cause damage if you adjusted them when pumped up, then the valves could never be readjusted after the engine ran the first time.

This isn't the case, because the lifter bleeds down from the pressure of the valve spring. If you doubt this, zero lash a pumped up lifter w/the lifter on the base circle of the cam. Add a turn of preload to it and feel how tight the rocker arm is. Go have a Coke. Come back and see if the rocker arm is still as tight as it was right after adding preload.

BTW, I'm the one guy left in the world who still pumps up his hydraulic lifters in a can of oil. I have my reasons for doing this, it's not out of ignorance. I have done this for around 40 years. Just saying.
11-10-2012 07:13 PM
techinspector1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mertz View Post
The crankshaft sprocket has three notches. There is one that is square on the top that is supposed to retard timing. One round on the top that is OEM and one that has a point on top of the notch that is for advanced. The instructions say that it will advance or retard 2 degrees using the either the retard or advance notch.

So when I set the number 1 to TDC number 6 should also be to TDC. If I am 180 out does number 6 not show up at TDC? I am installing the cam sprocket with number 1 at TDC is that correct? The cam dot is at 6 and since there is no crank dot I have it set for TDC. I will slip on the balancer and see if it puts the timing mark at TDC since it has to go over the same key.

Sorry for being confused this is my first build and I want to get it right.
No problem, we'll keep doin' it until everyone understands it. Stop worrying about the position of any of the pistons in their bores. It doesn't matter for installing the sprockets. Just put the dots together and bolt the sprocket and chain on the motor. Use whichever dot you want to on the crank sprocket, but be advised that the cam is already ground in an advance position from the factory. All the cam grinders do that automatically. I would advise installing the cam on the zero mark and running the motor. Then, if you decide you need more bottom, advance the cam or install another grind that closes the intake earlier.

Again, don't worry about where any of the pistons are. The crank gear will only go on one way because of the key and the cam gear will only go on one way if you align the dots right next to each other. Once you have the crank gear on at 12PM and the cam gear on at 6PM and have the whole mess buttoned up, rotate the crankshaft one complete revolution clockwise so that you will then be ready to drop the distributor in and run the plug wires.

#6 and #1 are companion cylinders. The piston comes to the top of the bore on both of them at the same time. The difference is that when you have the crank gear at 12PM and the cam gear at 6PM, #6 is ready to fire and #1 is on overlap. Having the crank gear at 12PM and the cam gear at 12PM will put #1 at firing position and #6 at overlap. That's how you want it to run the wiring.
11-10-2012 07:01 PM
Richiehd Yes Use the round mark at 12 oclock on the crank gear. Make sure both 1 and 6 are at top dead center. I think there are 3 keyways on that gear. Right? make sure you are using the keyway with the same mark as the mark you are using to line up with the camshaft.
11-10-2012 06:46 PM
Mertz The crankshaft sprocket has three notches. There is one that is square on the top that is supposed to retard timing. One round on the top that is OEM and one that has a point on top of the notch that is for advanced. The instructions say that it will advance or retard 2 degrees using the either the retard or advance notch.

So when I set the number 1 to TDC number 6 should also be to TDC. If I am 180 out does number 6 not show up at TDC? I am installing the cam sprocket with number 1 at TDC is that correct? The cam dot is at 6 and since there is no crank dot I have it set for TDC. I will slip on the balancer and see if it puts the timing mark at TDC since it has to go over the same key.

Sorry for being confused this is my first build and I want to get it right.

I just went out and checked and the sprocket is on right and I did check to see if either side had a dot before I put it on and they did not. I figured no dot since it can be put on three ways. The instructions do however show a dot. I installed it square to retarded on the left and advance pointed top on the right.
11-10-2012 05:03 PM
techinspector1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mertz View Post
I just tried to install my Cloyes roller timing chain. I have the sprocket on the crank and the #1 piston at TDC but the align marks won't line up. I have a chain set up that can be installed retarded, OE or advanced and it does not have a dot on the crank sprocket. The dot on the cam sprocket is to one side of center. If I move a tooth it goes to the other side but much farther of center. Is this going to be a problem? I wouldn't mind a little retarded for more low end torque but I would prefer it was straight up.
First off, you advance the camshaft in relation to the crankshaft to generate more low end and low mid range. (You secure the crankshaft to prevent it turning and then turn the cam sprocket, with the cam attached to the sprocket, clockwise to advance the camshaft relative to the crankshaft). Leaving the crank still and the cam still and turning only the cam sprocket clockwise, using offset dowels, will retard the cam timing in relation to the crankshaft. Leaving the crank still and the camshaft still and turning only the cam sprocket counter-clockwise, using offset dowels, will advance the camshaft in relation to the crankshaft. Retarding it will improve top end and upper mid range at the expense of low end and low mid range power. Pull the crank sprocket off and see if the mark is on the other side. If you're seeing a chamfer at the edge of the bore of the sprocket, it's definitely on backwards. That chamfer goes to the fillet radius on the crank.

For the rest of you....
#1 cylinder and #6 cylinders are companion cylinders. They both come to TDC at the same time. When assembling a motor, line up the dot on the cam sprocket at 6PM and the dot on the crank sprocket at 12PM, so that they are right next to each other. With the cam in this position, #6 cylinder will be ready to fire. In order to get #1 cylinder ready to fire (so that you can run the distributor wiring correctly), you will want to turn the crankshaft one complete turn clockwise, so that the cam dot is at 12PM and the crank dot is at 12PM.
11-10-2012 04:49 PM
Mertz I just tried to install my Cloyes roller timing chain. I have the sprocket on the crank and the #1 piston at TDC but the align marks won't line up. I have a chain set up that can be installed retarded, OE or advanced and it does not have a dot on the crank sprocket. The dot on the cam sprocket is to one side of center. If I move a tooth it goes to the other side but much farther of center. Is this going to be a problem? I wouldn't mind a little retarded for more low end torque but I would prefer it was straight up.
11-10-2012 01:14 PM
Mertz I think I got on the lifters. If they are pumped up as in an already running engine go to zero lash and no more. For dry lifters it is ok to go to zero an then add the 1/2 to 3/4 turn. They will then fill with the appropriate amount of oil without damaging any thing.

With that new knowledge, I set the lash on my 350 in my Chevy pickup to zero and then 1/2 turn. Should I go back a set it to zero and leave it? I don't have any bent push rods and it runs fine but not all that much power.

BTW Thanks for the information It is always good to get information like this that I have never read anywhere else. They don't tell you the correct method with the cam instructions. All I have ever heard was zero than zero to 1 1/2 turns.
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