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Topic Review (Newest First)
04-02-2013 09:13 PM
bygddy
Quote:
Originally Posted by bj383ss View Post
Thanks guys for the concern. I realize all the bearings are toast. Had to get this car running so I could move it. The C/R is too high was going to change pistons anyway. I needed to move the car out to my new garage to pull the motor. We might be possibly selling our house soon and this car hasn't left the drive way in 3 years. I realize the cam will be ruined as well but it was going to cost me close to a hundred to tow it and now I will be able to move it around until I have time to tear it down.

The cam bearings actually looked good I was very surprised. I don't even no how it ran with 3 complete dead cylinders and several others only getting the valves open half way!

Bret
Hey, I did say "mechanical noise" on page one lol.
As for a rebuild, right in march of last summer a buddy's 383 ate a big lunati cam like a week after it was broken in (yes incorrectly). He thru an old cam and lifters of unknown specs that I had kicking around from 100 years ago that had been hanging on my garage wall as art lol. Lifters miss matched and dusty and shtty in a Kleenex box. Did another "break in" just cause, and ran like 40 litres of bulk oil from our shop through it. Drove it all summer, put a ton of mileage on it and went 12.20's in a fully loaded G-body 84 Monte. Once in awhile you just get lucky.....
04-01-2013 08:58 AM
lmsport If the oil filter bypass is blocked, the bearings probably havent suffered at all.
04-01-2013 08:54 AM
bj383ss Thanks guys for the concern. I realize all the bearings are toast. Had to get this car running so I could move it. The C/R is too high was going to change pistons anyway. I needed to move the car out to my new garage to pull the motor. We might be possibly selling our house soon and this car hasn't left the drive way in 3 years. I realize the cam will be ruined as well but it was going to cost me close to a hundred to tow it and now I will be able to move it around until I have time to tear it down.

The cam bearings actually looked good I was very surprised. I don't even no how it ran with 3 complete dead cylinders and several others only getting the valves open half way!

Bret
04-01-2013 08:04 AM
techinspector1
Quote:
Originally Posted by 33Willys77 View Post
Do you realize all that metal has run through that motor? Your oil pump and bearings are going to be chewed up and you are going to be back in this motor again shortly. Once you have a cam go out (in your case a pretty bad situation), the engine will need to be cooked clean again. Someone should have steered you in this direction - there is still a lot of metal floating around in there - all those oil passages. How did the cam bearings look?
You're thinkin' what I'm thinkin'.
04-01-2013 07:30 AM
vinniekq2 4 months since last post,hope the engine came out of the car?
$90.ºº cam and lifters? I wonder how long they last?
04-01-2013 07:04 AM
33Willys77 Do you realize all that metal has run through that motor? Your oil pump and bearings are going to be chewed up and you are going to be back in this motor again shortly. Once you have a cam go out (in your case a pretty bad situation), the engine will need to be cooked clean again. Someone should have steered you in this direction - there is still a lot of metal floating around in there - all those oil passages. How did the cam bearings look?
03-28-2013 06:25 PM
bj383ss Got the old cam out. New cam in. Front buttoned up. Just need to button up the top end.









Bret
03-25-2013 06:49 AM
bj383ss Well got a new cam and lifters for the Caprice. Went with the Summit k1103. It was on sale and it cost about the same as it would for me to have the Caprice towed to my new garage so I figured what the hell. I know the bearings and what not may all need to be replace but at this point I would rather have the engine run then to have the car as yard art! Will get it installed in the next week or so hopefully when the weather we are having breaks. Will post the results up.





Bret
11-29-2012 08:11 PM
hcompton
Quote:
Originally Posted by bj383ss View Post
Hcompton that is not a bad idea. I really like the 700r4 idea. I will have to do some leg work. I don't really now any good junkyards in my area

Bret
Now that is an important part because junk yards vary alot. Some are super cheap other price them self put of your buisness. Best to shop around and wait for the good deal also check craiglist. You cant imagine the ppl hoarding corvette drive trains in there garage. Tpi engine use gen one intakes bolt pattern if they have corvette alum heads.

Fyi go into the junk yard in your poor close and ask for a good engine at a good deal. Nothing will get you a good deal like face to face hello. If you call you may end up wasting your time. They wont always search the computer(other junk yards) for telephone orders. And not something easy toget over the net it adds to the cost.

Some junk yards install and warranty there engines. It is december. also getting a turn key price gives you some more time to negoitate a good deal. Sometime dropping the warranty is best as they can give you a price easier especaiilly if they are not the ones with the part and need to order it from another junk yard. No body wants warranty problems with someone elses stuff. Kind of a funny bizz but one that is full of deals. Cause the junk yard will get the engine for a few hundred bucks max any engine! Some of them alot cheaper. Bizz model based on rebuilder price any else is gravy.
11-29-2012 07:46 PM
bj383ss Hcompton that is not a bad idea. I really like the 700r4 idea. I will have to do some leg work. I don't really now any good junkyards in my area

Bret
11-29-2012 07:06 PM
hcompton
Quote:
Originally Posted by bj383ss View Post
Bogie I do have the matched springs. The Roller stamped rockers were just a quick fix until I could buy full roller rockers but I never got around to it. They are 1.6 ratio though I think this also might have been a bad choice.
How much money are you working with on this project. I am thinking you could get a cheap long block from the junk yard and stick your intake and carb on it and be driving in a days work. Might as well get a th700r4 while your at it. I got a feeling that combo would make you very happy for the least amount of cash. Then you can put the big motor aside until you got the cash to do it up right. Also 700 has little more punch down low and a lot better gas milage. That part will atleast pay for it self.

I have learned from many builds not to worry about a motor if your goal is a car. If your racing then its all about the motor but if its just to get to work. Some of the badest rides out there have stock motors or just good exhuast and intake. The value and the chance you will be able to hang on to it will go up a lot if its running. when you got to move in a hurry the yard art get sacrificed first. I let one of my fav cars go for this reason. Didnt think i was moving but my job changed and in two weeks i was gone car was tow to the junk yard... I wont say what type of car dont want to get yeld at for junking a classic. It wasnt that classic back then lol.

Hope it all works out for you.
11-29-2012 05:48 PM
bj383ss Bogie I do have the matched springs. The Roller stamped rockers were just a quick fix until I could buy full roller rockers but I never got around to it. They are 1.6 ratio though I think this also might have been a bad choice.
11-29-2012 05:36 PM
vinniekq2 I think if your cam was in the 440 lift area with a wide lda and mild duration,a near smooth idle and wide rpm range would be nice
11-29-2012 05:20 PM
oldbogie
Quote:
Originally Posted by bj383ss View Post
Well made some headway today. Started the engine up to operating temps. Shut it down and starting pulling spark plugs and valve covers so I could adjust the valves.

I FOUND MY PROBLEM!
#2 cylinder has some issues.


Broken pushrod and 2 rocker arms off. No wonder it ran like crap. It also split the pushrod guide in 3 places. It marred the edge of the valve tip but I think it is ok. A couple of the other rocker arms on this side were very loose. SO I guess when I adjusted the valves I obviously did it incorrect. So I am going to pull the intake to get the rest of the pushrod.

I hit the intake valve using a block of wood and hammer and it went down and back up fine so I am hoping it is not damaged.

When I pull the intake I am going to pull each lifter out individually and see if any are damaged. Hopefully this will only need a pushrod and new guide.

Thanks to all those who have been giving advice.

Bret
This makes more sense, there wasn't anything about your build that otherwise would lead to unusual problems, by today’s standards this is really a pretty moderate build and the XE268 isn't all that hot of a cam. This combo should be a good sturdy street engine. I get the feeling you ride it pretty hard which will take the life out of the motor pretty quickly. I don't think your rocker selection was up to the task and perhaps other parts as well. I consider roller tip rockers with ball fulcrum to be a complete waste of money. The problem with rockers is the fulcrum more so than the tip. The ball and socket gets really hot with high spring pressures, valve float, and high RPMs. There isn't any way of really dealing with these temps and friction in the fulcrum other than a fully rollerized rocker. Grooved balls will let you push the edge a little but the XE286 does need a pretty good spring. You did match the Comp recommended (should be required) spring kit with this cam, didn't you? This is big time important and often overlooked when people buy aftermarket heads with an included "racer springs" by someone's definition who are selling the heads not the cam. My best recommendation when buying aftermarket heads it to purchase them bare, use a known good quality valve and use the springs and retainers sold by the cam manufacturer unless you’re sufficiently knowledgeable in the rocket science of valve train dynamics to go off on your own. I find there are damn few people building engines that are that good. This takes expertise and pieces of really expensive development equipment the average guy and many if not most equipment purveyors just don't have. This is a place where you need to pay like Goldylocks, not too soft and not too stiff, just right. Too soft will float the valve train which pounds the parts to pieces when they snap closed. Too stiff and the pressures just wear everything out too quickly. The XE268 does not need a fast leak down lifter, keeping these things tracking the lobe quietly is a problem. You're walking a really fine line between pumping the lifter holding the valve open or pounding the tappet into the lobe.

When you start getting up around .5 inch lift you also need to consider a stepped push rod guide to give more support closer to the rocker as that end with high lift is going to move a considerable distance from the point of support so any deflection of the push-rod will become increasingly magnified where it interfaces on the rocker as this distance increases. That will cause the rocker to want to wander off the side of the valve stem.

I'm not a fan of the simplified method of adjusting valves where you are skipping cylinder to cylinder and side to side doing multiple adjustments at certain crankshaft stations, this especially gets to be risky as the cam durations become longer simply because it is difficult to hit TDC accurately unless you go though the degree wheel and positive stop drill for every adjusting station which is a huge amount of work these simplified adjusting methods were developed to avoid for the flat rate mechanic. I highly recommend that one start at number one cylinder with both valves closed on the top of the power stroke and make you initial adjustments here then rotate the crank through the firing order in order and adjust each as they come up on the firing position. That insures the tappets are not on any part of a lobe. Where one uses older design performance cams with really long ramps leading to and from the action this is a big time problem to get accurate with simplified method. Cams like the XE, the Voodoo, and other similar modern cams where the ramps are short and the action quick are less likely to cause alignment problems on set up but if you're off TDC too much you will have big trouble as these cams come on the lobe really fast.

Bogie
11-29-2012 05:03 PM
bj383ss I realize I can't run a true stock cam. But if I keep the Edelbrock heads what is the smallest cam I can run? The Summit 1103 that Fbird suggested.

I'm not mad at it. I just have started to steer more towards stock style engines from the hot rod engines I use to love. I still love them just don't want to mess with it all the time. I don't even drive this car anymore because the tires are dry rotted from sitting outside for 8 years, the th350 has no second gear and the engine wouldn't even putt down the street. If I could have it all back like it was when I got it that would be awesome. But the cost of that would be too much right now.

I got excited when I found the broken pushrod as I thought I could get it running again for about $25 but that isn't the case anymore.

I have thought several times about parting out the entire car. I have a Camaro SS and now a 64 Chevy stepside. The Caprice is on the back burner. Its my first car and I just know that if I get rid of it someday I am going to regret it. I've had it since 95' and it was my moms car she bought it in 86'. So its been around since I was 8 years old. My wife even likes the car its what I was driving when were first dating. It died at a stop light on our first date and she had to help my push it over to the curb. LOL
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