Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board - Reply to Topic
Hotrodders.com -- Hot Rod Forum



Register FAQ Search Today's Posts Unanswered Posts Auto Escrow Insurance Auto Loans
Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board > Tech Help> Hotrodding Basics> To 283 or not to 283?
User Name
Password
lost password?   |   register now

Thread: To 283 or not to 283? Reply to Thread
Title:
  
Message:
Trackback:
Send Trackbacks to (Separate multiple URLs with spaces) :

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name (usually not your first and last name), your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Additional Options
Miscellaneous Options

Topic Review (Newest First)
11-18-2012 05:12 PM
painted jester
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mertz View Post
I am just finishing my 283 and will tell you that it was much harder to build than the 350's that my classmates were building. You don't have as many options for parts unless you have deep pockets and then some are still not what I really wanted. Guys were buying total engine rebuild kits with hyperutectic pistons for what I would have had to pay for just the pistons. I think I will end up with a nice engine.


Its nice to see people still building the Little Giant

If done right youll be happy! you building a stock type low HP or a stock 283-283 HP or hopping it up for High RPM & High HP?

Jester
11-18-2012 03:54 PM
Mertz I am just finishing my 283 and will tell you that it was much harder to build than the 350's that my classmates were building. You don't have as many options for parts unless you have deep pockets and then some are still not what I really wanted. Guys were buying total engine rebuild kits with hyperutectic pistons for what I would have had to pay for just the pistons. I think I will end up with a nice engine.
11-16-2012 09:27 PM
BigEd36
Quote:
Originally Posted by cobalt327 View Post
One option that I don't think has been mentioned is to find a 1996-2000 L31 5.7L Vortec long block (an L31 Vortec long block includes the Vortec heads) or a 1986-up sbc 350 short block equipped w/the factory roller cam and lifters and add your choice of heads to it.

The ability to build an inexpensive engine that uses roller lifters is a real plus, given the poor quality of the over the counter motor oils and the possible cam break in problems w/flat tappet cams these days.

An engine like the Vortec long block w/a mild cam and a 4-barrel carb and intake and carb along w/headers and a reworked GM HEI distributor will reliably make your power goals w/o breaking a sweat, and can do it very inexpensively.

But whatever you decide, good luck and be sure to ask about parts and such first before shelling out your hard-earned money.
Cobalt327, thanks for pointing that out. A carbed Vortec engine is what I was suggesting but I never made the distinction between FI and carbed.
11-16-2012 06:15 PM
ap72
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigEd36 View Post
Ap72, I have exactly ZERO experience with anything LS. I have an '88 Monte Carlo 4.3L V6. The engine is shot, I've been planning on repowering it with either a Gen I or a Vortec style engine. How much harder would it be to repower with the LS style? Do the LS engines use the same bellhousing bolt pattern, and the same engine mounts? Flywheel bolt patterns? A 5.3, 6.0, or 6.2 from a pickup might be an "interesting" upgrade if it's not to radical of a project.

Also, what specs of cam regrind would you recommend? What's the cost and where can you get the regrind done? Anybody whom you would recommend?
The bellhousing pattern is the same except for one bolt, the flywheels are different, engine mounts are different, Mike Jones can get you a good regrind.

A 5.3L can be bought for $500 or less. The larger ones cost a few grand.
11-16-2012 03:59 PM
BigEd36
Quote:
Originally Posted by ap72 View Post
Okay, for cheap power here's an EASY recipie.

5.3L gen III engine
LS1 or LS6 intake
LS6 valve spring swap
small cam regrind
mill your heads
tune and possibly injectors


even with stock manifolds you're well past your HP goal, probably spending between $1000-$1500 total, and will have a more durable engine with better street manners than if you built that 283.

Yes its that freaken simple and cheap.
Ap72, I have exactly ZERO experience with anything LS. I have an '88 Monte Carlo 4.3L V6. The engine is shot, I've been planning on repowering it with either a Gen I or a Vortec style engine. How much harder would it be to repower with the LS style? Do the LS engines use the same bellhousing bolt pattern, and the same engine mounts? Flywheel bolt patterns? A 5.3, 6.0, or 6.2 from a pickup might be an "interesting" upgrade if it's not to radical of a project.

Also, what specs of cam regrind would you recommend? What's the cost and where can you get the regrind done? Anybody whom you would recommend?
11-16-2012 03:30 PM
painted jester [QUOTE=painted jester;1612003]Dunnp2:


stock: Head flow data
AIRFLOW DATA CFM: head castings #s
------In/Ex-------In/Ex------In/Ex-------In/Ex
Lift-#186head- *461 head #492head #487head
.050...30/20........30/21.........30/22........31/22
.100...58/45........59/46.........59/47........59/51
.200....113/87......115/93.......115/92......119/102
.300...158/120.....164/127.....158/117.....173/133
.400...190/136.....201/155.....186/127.....207/144
.500...205/140.....211/168.....200/134.....213/146
.600...205/141.....212/174.....209/137.....215/146

*461 heads eliminated for test due to obvious porting; 327 was run with 186 heads.


The site is compressing posts making it hard to make columns and closing spaces in paragraphs So I straightened this out making it easier to read Its going to make it hard to post tech info Can someone fix this its important to some of us !!!!

Jester
11-16-2012 02:59 PM
cobalt327
Quote:
Originally Posted by dunnp2 View Post
Hey guys, my brother has an old chevy 283 block, crank, and heads that he's willing to give me to use for a swap. It's from between '58 and '62, casting code 3757519, two bolt mains. Things are a bit rusty so everything would have to be cleaned up before the build.

My question is: is it worth it? I'm looking for 300-350 hp, not afraid of turbos if that's the way to go. The other best option would be a junkyard LS1 which would be lighter and have more power, correct?

I have zero experience with american engines, so forgive me if I don't make sense.

Would it be cheaper to machine the block and buy parts to build the engine, or just buy a complete LS1 and be done?
One option that I don't think has been mentioned is to find a 1996-2000 L31 5.7L Vortec long block (an L31 Vortec long block includes the Vortec heads) or a 1986-up sbc 350 short block equipped w/the factory roller cam and lifters and add your choice of heads to it.

The ability to build an inexpensive engine that uses roller lifters is a real plus, given the poor quality of the over the counter motor oils and the possible cam break in problems w/flat tappet cams these days.

An engine like the Vortec long block w/a mild cam and a 4-barrel carb and intake and carb along w/headers and a reworked GM HEI distributor will reliably make your power goals w/o breaking a sweat, and can do it very inexpensively.

But whatever you decide, good luck and be sure to ask about parts and such first before shelling out your hard-earned money.
11-16-2012 02:33 PM
painted jester Dunnp2:


Dyno tests May shock some on the little 302 especially in the higher rpm ranges but every day driving is not in these ranges ! So consider well what your driving will be!


HORSEPOWER NUMBERS
RPM 302 327 350 350 ('71)_ the legendary LT-1
3000 167 196 208 199
3300 184 210 232 223
3500 206 232 254 246
3800 233 261 283 275
4000 248 275 298 291
4300 272 297 318 311
4500 283 308 329 324
4800 301 324 341 340
5000 311 333 347 347
5300 326 344 352 355
5500 333 349 353 361
5800 347 347 350 362
6000 350 348 348 361
6300 353 352 348 353
6500 356 347 342 345
6800 356 339 329 332
7000 352 331 312 319

TORQUE NUMBERS
RPM 302 327 350 350 ('71)-LT-1
3000 292 332 364 349
3300 293 334 369 354
3500 309 348 381 369
3800 322 360 391 379
4000 325 362 391 382
4300 332 363 389 380
4500 331 360 383 378
4800 329 355 373 372
5000 327 350 364 364
5300 323 341 349 352
5500 318 333 337 345
5800 314 314 317 328
6000 307 305 305 316
6300 295 293 290 295
6500 287 281 277 279
6800 275 262 254 257
7000 264 248 234 239



What are your head casting numbers from your 283?

A few of my tips on 302s and 283s: you build a 283 get head gaskets that fit the bore of the 283 don't get generic over the counter gaskets that fit from 283 to 400 bores, Cross drill and chanfer your crank, if you can afford it Chrome The crank journals ( I can see an argument LOL) I do it But my 302s hit over 8000 rpm! Make sure the machine shop you go to uses torgue plates , for High rpm use shaft rockers or at least a girdle, Dont use aluminum rockers, Be precice on all balancing, Use floating pins, Use only forged pistons, I use solid flat tappet cams (I have my reasons but to each his own) Other guys on here can add more or Ill be typing all day LOL and many may disagree with what I say LOL!

AIRFLOW DATA CFM: head castings #s
In/Ex In/Ex In/Ex In/Ex
Lift 186 *461 492 487
.050 30/20 30/21 30/22 31/22
.100 58/45 59/46 59/47 59/51
.200 113/87 115/93 115/92 119/102
.300 158/120 164/127 158/117 173/133
.400 190/136 201/155 186/127 207/144
.500 205/140 211/168 200/134 213/146
.600 205/141 212/174 209/137 215/146

*461 heads eliminated for test due to obvious porting; 327 was run with 186 heads.


Jester
11-16-2012 02:20 PM
ap72 Okay, for cheap power here's an EASY recipie.

5.3L gen III engine
LS1 or LS6 intake
LS6 valve spring swap
small cam regrind
mill your heads
tune and possibly injectors


even with stock manifolds you're well past your HP goal, probably spending between $1000-$1500 total, and will have a more durable engine with better street manners than if you built that 283.

Yes its that freaken simple and cheap.
11-16-2012 01:57 PM
BigEd36 As pointed out very well by Painted Jester, to build your HP goal with a 283 will be more expensive than with a 350. Any budget 350 build with a mild cam, dual plane intake, 600-750 cfm carb, and headers will easily make 300 HP.

Here's probably the easiest 300 HP there is for $1819.95 with FREE shipping and a warranty! It's only $80 more with an Edelbrock Performer intake manifold. You would be hard pressed to build it much, if any, cheaper.

For $160 more ($1979.95) you can get the 2 bolt main 350 Vortec long block, again with FREE shipping. For $2019.95 you can get the 4 bolt main 350 Vortec long block with FREE shipping. These both upgrade you to factory roller cam. The 2 bolt main block will more than handle the HP level you're aiming for. A cam change to the GMPP #14097395 cam used in the 350 Ram Jet and HT383 (High Torque 383) engines puts you well into the range of your HP goal. Edited to add: This cam will work with the stock Vortec heads, lift is .431/.451, 196*/206* duration at .050" lift, 109* LSA (lobe spacing angle), really pumps out some torque in a Vortec headed engine.
11-16-2012 01:34 PM
painted jester My Buddy always ran radial slicks on an 11 second Roadrunner 440 4 speed. (it will be in my journal soon with the new Engine I built for him) I talked him into running bias belted and on his first run it hooked up so harsh and the front end lifted he went back to the Radials the next pass LOL! But it was the first time the car broke 10! Hes afraid something on the car will break and he drives it on the street (its not a drag car) He couldn't believe the difference in traction!!!!

Jester
11-16-2012 12:39 PM
vinniekq2 holy crap,I remember my first slicks were a semi soft side wall with a two grooves cut into the surface. They cost me spider gears twice and 1 muncie.
11-16-2012 11:51 AM
painted jester
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinniekq2 View Post
PJs 302 in a mazda miata with a 5 spd would sure make the ferrari boys look silly
Years ago we put an 8,000 rpm 283 hilborn injected 4 speed in an Opel GT it was one of the quickest and Hairiest to drive cars I ever saw And it was street only No roll bar nothing with hot grooved 8 inch slicks LOL

Jester
11-16-2012 11:42 AM
painted jester
Quote:
Originally Posted by dunnp2 View Post
I'm in northern NY. I do have experience from rebuilding a few subaru engines, and I can clean/check, but this stuff is far too rusty to be useful without machining. I suppose the best thing to do is bring it to a shop and ask them what it's worth?

Everything's torn down and all that's left is the crank, block, and heads. How easy would it be to find the right rods and pistons for a proper rebuild?
LOL I thought you were in a 3rd world country!!!!! LOL



Its hard to find some parts it depends! example: Pink rods are hard to find but there are many aftermarket rods available! How deep are your pockets? Can you afford to build a screaming 302, or a 283 with good power? To get a 283 to 283 HP costs a lot more then getting a 350 to 283 hp!!!!!!! That's as simple as it can be stated!!!!!!

A 283 crank in a 327 or 350 block is a 302 if you bore it .030 its a 306 and so on! If you use a small journal block or the 283 block , Girdle the mains .

What do you want? Don't let some one talk you into something you cant finnish!! or when its done your not satisfied! Tech & vinniekq2 among many on here wont stear you wrong!!!!


Jester
11-16-2012 11:31 AM
vinniekq2 PJs 302 in a mazda miata with a 5 spd would sure make the ferrari boys look silly
This thread has more than 15 replies. Click here to review the whole thread.

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:01 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
Copyright Hotrodders.com 1999 - 2012. All Rights Reserved.