|12-04-2012 09:42 AM|
We both used names in the business to prove our point.That in these forums is inappropriate.The advise we both prove should be based on trust of what we both know and not use names.
Dirty hands experience for me started way back as a engine tester/dyno rm tech working at the Chevy engine plant in Tonn,NY under the UAW 774.I started a learning curve under the supervision of Frank Leuendowski and Gorgie Shears.Before that under the guidance of a world war II motor pool mechanic Paul Weaver.At 65 yrs old I have spend my entire life as a study in dirty hands.I have been involved in a partnership of a very successful professional race operation of over 40yrs where 20yrs of it was in 9.90 racing winning a national event and currently a TAD with nitrous that ran in the 1/8 4.56@150.So your off base in your comments.We have been involved as a business for the whole time in the partnership in sales of overstock and recondition high performance parts where it was a tradition for three yrs to have dinner with the industry leaders because of our purchases we made.
Sir as always there is two sides to a story.That has been the case about long rod vs short rods since Smoky.So moving forward given our backgrounds it should be enough when we say it is like this.Even if we don't agree about a topic,that is why forums like this one works.
I don't think in this whole exchange at anytime I disrespected you.And Richard is a friend.(Techinspector 1) who I have know for awhile.I certainly respect his knowledge that time and again he has proven in posts on two forums.But I do disagree with him from time to time.
I am going to wrap up my posts on this topic like this.We all know and believe to stroke a engine adds to it's power output.Right??. Then to add to the length of that stroke with longer rods at the very least,a mechanical lever advantage should be a given. Really a simplistic answer??. Is it more complicated than that??. Yes it is.But that debate is for another thread sometime later.
To the O/P of this thread.I sincerely apologize how this got out of hand.
|12-04-2012 08:23 AM|
Butt Dyno really that is where this technical discussion is over. So your wrong just admit it and make the world a happy place.
|12-04-2012 12:45 AM|
This discussion of long rods vs short has gone on for yrs.And will go on long after we stop talking about it.
I done with it.
|12-04-2012 12:37 AM|
Ron is posing that other side of the discussion.Just because it's Ron doesn't mean he is right.Don't exclude all the references I posted that believe a long rod is worth while.And then I am telling you it is.
We needed to swap out a 5.7 engine for a spare identical short block 6" rod.Actually used the same cam.That 6" rod engine would put on a fender consistently at the top end.Sensitive butt dyno,it just felt faster.We knew John at LPE and I am very sure he believed the worth of long rods.
|12-03-2012 05:00 PM|
Nice article Tech way to kick this thread back on track. I felt like we were off the wheels and i was kinda responsible. So thank you for that one.
Now i got to research some 5.5 rods. I bet you can spin the crap out of that 350 w the 5.5 rods from the article. There is a lot to be said about adding more rpm potential to your weak links. I really like the 2-4 more degrees more cam and still be efficent. A lot of people seem to forget na or boost n2o to nitro its all about volumetric efficency. The higer the ve the more power you make per cylinder the high rpm that ve comes in the more over all power the engine make. The very reason we run big cams and high compression. Very rarely do you get any freebies in the hp world.
|12-03-2012 03:47 PM|
What Howards explained to me was they are tired of complaints about thrust side piston wear on there 3.75 stroke 5.7 rod cranks and have stopped selling the cranks by themselves because of that.
And I do not subscribe to the 6" rod use for the street because of the ring spacers.That s why I was very happy to get the last Howards 5.7 rod crank you see in the picture.
|12-03-2012 02:23 PM|
I'll weigh in here with some thoughts....
A 400 motor will be fine on the drag strip without steam holes being drilled in the heads. On the street, where the motor will be run south of 3,000 rpm's and idle for periods of time, it is likely to create hot spots and spit out the head gasket. Above 2,500/3,000 rpm's, there is enough turbulence created in the water jackets that steam pockets cannot form.
Hopefully, understanding the rules and using a modicum of common sense will allow a racer to pass tech with a front-mounted fuel cell. The idea is to get it inside body lines on a doorslammer and hopefully behind a chassis crossmember. Altereds and diggers need further protection. Here's the rule.....
"Tanks: When permitted by class regulations, fuel tanks located outside
body and/or frame must be enclosed in a steel tube frame constructed
of minimum 1 1/4-inch O.D. x .058 chromoly or .118 mild steel tubing.
All fuel tanks must be isolated from the driver’s compartment by a
firewall, completely sealed to prevent any fuel from entering the driver’s
compartment. All fuel tanks must have a pressure cap and be vented
outside of body. A positive-locking screw-on fuel tank cap is mandatory
on all open-bodied cars. Insulated fuel tanks prohibited. When used,
fuel cells must have a metal box protecting the part of the fuel cell that
is outside of body lines or trunk floor, excluding hose connection area
in rear. The metal box must be constructed of minimum .024 steel or
.032 aluminum. Nonmetallic fuel cells or tanks must be grounded to
This last part of the rule probably makes no sense to some of you who have not run cells, like how do you ground plastic, but what it refers to is grounding the metal ring at the fill hole of the cell. Use a piece of 10 ga wire and crimp connectors. Any frame crossmember that is forward of the cell will work in place of the tubing protection called for in the rule, even on an open car. Take a look at any digger. All Funny Cars have front-mounted cells too. We used to be tough on firewalls. Find a very dark place, position yourself so that you can see the firewall from inside the car and have a buddy shine a very strong light on the firewall from the engine compartment. Everywhere light can shine through is a place where fuel could pass through to the driver's compartment. If that fuel was on fire, well, you get the idea. Small holes can be filled by using a fender washer on each side of the firewall with a bolt and locking nut through the middle of the washers. Larger holes will need to be welded up with patches.
Whenever the question of rod length comes up, I always refer to the articles published by Ron Iskenderian, son of the famous camfather, Ed Iskenderian......
Please read Tech Tip 2005 here....
ISKY Racing Cams - Do It Right. Race with the Legend. Camshafts, Connecting Rods, Valve Springs, Lifters
|12-03-2012 01:46 PM|
Smokey Yunick,LPE,Howards,all aftermarket blocks,GM it's self all disagree with you on the long rod question.
I still,even through I have gotten older,have the ability to listen and learn.Some guys get hard of hearing and are tough to teach.Oh well.....................maybe there is something for them still living "back in the day".
|12-03-2012 01:31 PM|
[QUOTE=hcompton;1618056]Under hood tanks go in the front in same location as battery or coolant tank.
That's where things get questionable. The rule say's... "Tank must be mounted within the frame".
If it was mounted in the battery location that would "not be within the frame" and if the car took a hit in the front the fuel tank would be in for a good hit.
|12-03-2012 01:13 PM|
OK fine i will go and visit anyone in the burn unit. Since i been there myself i got a few things to say about your comments But i will ignore that for now. But you have to promise to build an engine with 5.7 rods then dyno change nothing but the rods and dyno again. OK are we golden now. Cause i would actually go and visit a friend not sure your going to listen to reason that will take more common sense than you actually have.
Cant wait for you to find out 6 inch rods give nothing but lighter wallets. Interent crap is no good I want real dyno results like i did myself years ago when clowns like you started to say it was worth the effort.
FYI We know you do not know about dangerous fuels at all since you did not even realize deisel burns at a lower temp than gas.
|12-02-2012 11:34 PM|
|1Gary||Still doing the dance avoiding the commitment I challenged you to make......|
|12-02-2012 03:43 PM|
Diesel has lower octane than gasoline. It also has a lower ignition temp. Higher octane has a higher ignition temp. Diesel can ignite at 410 degrees gas is over 500 before it will catch fire.
Just like i said. Higher octane gas will have a higher ignition temp.
|12-02-2012 03:24 PM|
That cert covers nation wide,not just in DC.
Still doing the dance avoiding the commitment I challenged you to make......
A lower flash point catches fire sooner/faster.If that wasn't the case,there would be no point in running 110 race gas.A higher flash point requires more heat like the case for kerosene.Diesel fuel has a higher flash point and what makes that work is in diesel engines the extreme high compression.So you have the flash points backwards.
|12-02-2012 10:11 AM|
A fire under the hood is safer than one under the car or good forbid in the trunk. Many ppl have had fires under the hood and not gotten hurt at all. That can not be said for a gas tank fire.
Dangerous good specialist? In wash DC? Why would someone be certified in dc only. That is totally useless since dc is all office building and everything is oitside of the dc you willl need to cross state lines if moving hazmat around dc.
But if you really are certified then why is it so strange to think about keeping all volitle compunds in one secure location. That has fire resistence and a rated firewall in between the driver and dangerous area.
|12-02-2012 07:07 AM|
|1Gary||For the record.Race gas's flash point is lower than pump gas.I am very sure about that being a dangerous goods specialist register in Washington,DC.|
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