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Topic Review (Newest First)
12-09-2012 07:16 PM
deadbodyman
Quote:
Originally Posted by deadbodyman View Post
Thats true but why buy the good stuff in the first place......more reducer= more shrinkage and raises the possibilites of solvent pop for those less experianced....
Try this ....leave some good 1:1 clear in a mixing cup (about a 1/2" or so) Then take the same clear and reduce it 4:1:1 in another cup and let them both cure for a two weeks ....you'll find the reduced clear seperates form the cup about a 1/4" -1/2" and the unreduced clear will still be stuck to the sides....ever wonder why sand scratches show up after a few weeks ? I truely believe thats half of it right there...
oops I meant ...using the same 1:1 clear then reduce it 10%-20% at 1:1... not 4:1:1....thats crazy... it;ll never cure.....must have been that third beer
The whole point is looking at what your using and seeing what is happining as it cures in the cup ,it tells volumes about the products your using..works with Primers too..
12-09-2012 04:22 PM
69 widetrack No, I've never tried the SPI products...first I'm in Canada and they don't seem to have any distribution up here...if they did they may not be allowed to sell it because we have VOC laws up here. If it doesn't meet government standards regarding VOC's the paint stores can't sell it. The painter can paint with it but can't buy it off the paint store shelf.

I know hat you mean by being a wide open move fast painter...I move fairly fast as well but people tell me that I have between 75% and 80% overlap, maybe that's why a 1.3 works for me?

But, from everything I've heard about SPI, I sure would like to try it. The low VOC clears we have up here now are leaving a little to be desired. I know one of the clears that lays down nice from PPG needs to be baked with the metal temperature being at 170 degrees...can you imagine the cost to the shop at minus 40. They do have other clears but still a bit of a challenge compared to the non compliant product.

Ray
12-09-2012 04:02 PM
deadbodyman
Quote:
Originally Posted by 69 widetrack View Post
Where do I start...All clears use reducer...some clears have the reducer built into the clear and all you do is catalyze it. Adding extra reducer to clear can cause it to "die off" as the solvents come out. This doesn't happen all the time and is dependent on how much extra reducer you put in. If your using a clear that doesn't call for reducer and you add reducer to it, you need to aware that reducers come in different strengths, and using a reducer not designed for the clear your spraying can give you the dying off situation I mentioned.

"Deadbodyman", I agree with what you said to a point, that you can't atomize clear if you can't get it out of the gun. If your spraying a heavy bodied clear and your getting orange peel, a 1.4 tip is going to atomize less than a 1.3. I've never had a clear that I can't get out of the gun, I have had clear that is heavy bodied to the point that I got orange peel...I solved the problem (for the way I spray) by going to a 1.3 tip. I had to move slower but I got less orange peel because I got more atomization. Base coat, being a thin product, atomizes much easier and can be sprayed successfully with different tip combinations. A lot depends on spray technique and product. If a 1.4 tip works for you with heavy bodied clear, that's what you should use. For me, I like my 1.3 for heavy clear.
I love SPI universil clear ,its just like Glasurat...I take it you havent tried it ???? I was really dissapointed when I tried to spray it out of my new Sata (1.3)I managed to spray the nose of the car (spot job) but had to go sooooo slooooow I couldnt hardly stand it...I'm a wide open gun and move very fast type of painter....but I can spray any thing thats reduced out of the same gun SS included ...
That said I started using SPI euro clear that reduces 4:1:1 and up to 4:1:3 to save some money and used the 1.3 Sata and got so many runs I was completely embarresed about it At 4: 1:3, and worked it down to 4;1:1 before I could use it with minor runs....I ended up going back to the universil clear and found its even cheaper in the long run with 2 gal. of sprayable material at 250.00 than the 4:1 at at 150 where ypou only get 5 qts....and plus all the time it takes to sand and bufff the runs out .....the universil is actually hard to run you really have to screw up to make it run (although I've done it) but its really worth it to ship a car without any buffing at all....Glass every time... I really looking forward to using that new techna gun I'll save about 1,000 00 in guns if it works like you and everyone else says it does...
12-09-2012 03:46 PM
69 widetrack Your right again Dead. Sand scratches that show up a few weeks after painting is caused by the products both on top and underneath the paint shrinking. Say for example somebody finishes their body work in 80 grit..primes the repair area, doesn't leave proper flash times and then it gets prepped for paint. The painter paints the car and it looks great. A time goes by and sand scratches show up in the repaired area. Base coat is made up of pigment and in most cases solvent, (reducer), as I mentioned earlier all clear have a solvent or reducer in them, so again, you have another product with solvent going over top. These solvents go through the base coat, through the prime and right down to the metal and when they hit metal they bounce up and take remaining solvent left in the primer, base coat and clear coat with them...this action is what gives you chemical adhesion and is necessary for paint to stick. However, as it takes the solvent out, the substrate shrinks, as "Deadbodyman" described. When it shrinks, it leaves behind sand scratches. This is another reason why flash times are important as well as finishing body work with a finer paper. When body work is finished in a course paper, the primer fills the sand scratches, but, the primer in the footprint of the sand scratches doesn't "flash" properly and this is how you end up with scratches appearing even months after the car is painted.

Ray
12-09-2012 03:29 PM
deadbodyman
Quote:
Originally Posted by mitmaks View Post
You could reduce thicker clear to help it flow out. I don't see any harm in using reducer with thicker clears even if it doesn't call for it.
Thats true but why buy the good stuff in the first place......more reducer= more shrinkage and raises the possibilites of solvent pop for those less experianced....
Try this ....leave some good 1:1 clear in a mixing cup (about a 1/2" or so) Then take the same clear and reduce it 4:1:1 in another cup and let them both cure for a two weeks ....you'll find the reduced clear seperates form the cup about a 1/4" -1/2" and the unreduced clear will still be stuck to the sides....ever wonder why sand scratches show up after a few weeks ? I truely believe thats half of it right there...
12-09-2012 02:36 PM
69 widetrack Where do I start...All clears use reducer...some clears have the reducer built into the clear and all you do is catalyze it. Adding extra reducer to clear can cause it to "die off" as the solvents come out. This doesn't happen all the time and is dependent on how much extra reducer you put in. If your using a clear that doesn't call for reducer and you add reducer to it, you need to aware that reducers come in different strengths, and using a reducer not designed for the clear your spraying can give you the dying off situation I mentioned.

"Deadbodyman", I agree with what you said to a point, that you can't atomize clear if you can't get it out of the gun. If your spraying a heavy bodied clear and your getting orange peel, a 1.4 tip is going to atomize less than a 1.3. I've never had a clear that I can't get out of the gun, I have had clear that is heavy bodied to the point that I got orange peel...I solved the problem (for the way I spray) by going to a 1.3 tip. I had to move slower but I got less orange peel because I got more atomization. Base coat, being a thin product, atomizes much easier and can be sprayed successfully with different tip combinations. A lot depends on spray technique and product. If a 1.4 tip works for you with heavy bodied clear, that's what you should use. For me, I like my 1.3 for heavy clear.
12-09-2012 02:05 PM
mitmaks
Quote:
Originally Posted by deadbodyman View Post
actually, Ray the 1.3 tip is only good for clears that are reduced or med solid clears for the good high solid clears you need a 1.4(the thicker the material the bigger the tip) you cant atomize the material better if you cant get the material out of the gun,right? I use a Sata 1.3 for my base and reduced clear but when I use the good HS clears my Iwata 1.4 does the job best..
My Iwata has been in use for about 8 yrs and lately its giving me a little trouble ,its getting a little wore out so I've been looking to replace it I'll be going with a devilbis TECNA for around 450-500.00 it comes with three tips and sounds promising They'll be sending me a gun to demo and know I'll be comparing it to the Sata and Iwata and if it dont preform at least as well it'll be sent back...The man I talked too said he knows my guns well and has been painting for years and thinks I'll love this gun, to date hes only had one come back from a demo...Then I called my buddy Barry K and he said hes heard a lot of good things about these guns and nothing bad, so Im going for it and with any luck I'll be a devilbus fan again...I'll let yall know all about it after I spray a ca ror two
You could reduce thicker clear to help it flow out. I don't see any harm in using reducer with thicker clears even if it doesn't call for it.
12-09-2012 07:44 AM
69 widetrack Both the guy with the Demo TECNA and Barry K are right...The TECNA is an excellent gun...I'm sure your going to be happy with it. I've a TECNA them on several occasions and even sold quite a few...loved the guns and never had a complaint about them...I recently talked to a few old customer's of mine that I sild the gun to and they all agreed...a great gun.

Ray
12-09-2012 07:04 AM
deadbodyman
Quote:
Originally Posted by 69 widetrack View Post
Sata's are good clear guns depending on the model. Your 1.4 tip may be your problem...try a 1.3 for clear. If you use a heavy bodied clear it needs to be broken up more and you can achieve this with a smaller air cap and needle. All I use in my Sata's for clear is the 1.3 tip.

I still like the old Devilbus technology for clear as well, the GTI is an excellent choice for the heavy bodied clear coats.

Ray
actually, Ray the 1.3 tip is only good for clears that are reduced or med solid clears for the good high solid clears you need a 1.4(the thicker the material the bigger the tip) you cant atomize the material better if you cant get the material out of the gun,right? I use a Sata 1.3 for my base and reduced clear but when I use the good HS clears my Iwata 1.4 does the job best..
My Iwata has been in use for about 8 yrs and lately its giving me a little trouble ,its getting a little wore out so I've been looking to replace it I'll be going with a devilbis TECNA for around 450-500.00 it comes with three tips and sounds promising They'll be sending me a gun to demo and know I'll be comparing it to the Sata and Iwata and if it dont preform at least as well it'll be sent back...The man I talked too said he knows my guns well and has been painting for years and thinks I'll love this gun, to date hes only had one come back from a demo...Then I called my buddy Barry K and he said hes heard a lot of good things about these guns and nothing bad, so Im going for it and with any luck I'll be a devilbus fan again...I'll let yall know all about it after I spray a ca ror two
12-08-2012 12:45 PM
69 widetrack I haven't checked out parts prices for Sata's in a long time, but, if that's the case, get a gun with a 1.3 tip for clear. You will be amazed at the difference.
12-08-2012 12:42 PM
mitmaks By the time I buy needle, tip and air cap I might as well buy another gun lol
12-08-2012 12:40 PM
69 widetrack
Quote:
Originally Posted by mitmaks View Post
Yes, sata's are nice. They just dump too much clear imo. I'm just not used to this gun yet. Seems like I need to bump up more pressure to atomize clear better but then I'm wasting a lot of clear in overspray. Then there's no whole HVLP point to it.
What your saying is exactly why I recommended a 1.3 cap and needle...Before you get rid of your Sata's, try this 1.3 set up...Your life will get better and you won't need to jack up the pressure and you'll save money on material, less over spray.

Just try it.

Ray
12-08-2012 12:37 PM
mitmaks I love my Accuspray gun. Unfortunately they don't make them anymore, got bought out by 3M I believe.
12-08-2012 12:35 PM
mitmaks Yes, sata's are nice. They just dump too much clear imo. I'm just not used to this gun yet. Seems like I need to bump up more pressure to atomize clear better but then I'm wasting a lot of clear in overspray. Then there's no whole HVLP point to it.
12-08-2012 12:24 PM
69 widetrack Sata's are good clear guns depending on the model. Your 1.4 tip may be your problem...try a 1.3 for clear. If you use a heavy bodied clear it needs to be broken up more and you can achieve this with a smaller air cap and needle. All I use in my Sata's for clear is the 1.3 tip.

I still like the old Devilbus technology for clear as well, the GTI is an excellent choice for the heavy bodied clear coats.

Ray
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