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Topic Review (Newest First)
12-16-2012 10:51 AM
hcompton
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunrise7 View Post
Thanks guys. Lots of things to check, but not much time this week. I do know for sure that its not a bolt in the crank flange or any interference with the engine stand. The engine has been sitting for a couple of years,, so maybe some rust up high in one of the bores where the piston is near tdc when it stops turning.... Guess I will have to pull the heads to find out for sure.... I highly doubt its interference with the cam since this motor ran before we pulled it out of the car.....
Yep its rust. You can try some marvel mystery oil in the. Plug holes and let it set over night then try to turn over with the plugs out. Mine stopped dead and would not move past some rust. But i was able to pull the heads and clean it out. Replaced the rings and hit it with a ball hone to make sure it was cleaned up and would let the new file to fit cast rings seat up. Not perfect but its not blowing smoke either im sure it will be smoking before it hits 100k miles but for now its fine.

Rust is very common there is always one valve open and leaves the cylinders exposed. To out side air and moisture.

Hope this helps.
12-15-2012 11:26 PM
sunrise7 Thanks guys. Lots of things to check, but not much time this week. I do know for sure that its not a bolt in the crank flange or any interference with the engine stand. The engine has been sitting for a couple of years,, so maybe some rust up high in one of the bores where the piston is near tdc when it stops turning.... Guess I will have to pull the heads to find out for sure.... I highly doubt its interference with the cam since this motor ran before we pulled it out of the car.....
12-11-2012 08:34 PM
sedanbob If this engine was running before you pulled it from the car and put it on the stand, then I seriously doubt it is a clearance problem stopping the engine from rotating. The suggestions that something might be hitting on the stand, or possibly the fuel pump rod stuck, seem much more likely. Since the intake manifold is off, the possibility that something was dropped down an intake port. You said you backed off the rockers - are all the valve in a fully-up position? If not, something might be caught in a partially open valve, and the valve contacting the piston. If any of the valves are down lower than the rest, that may be your culprit. If you don't find something hitting the stand, or the fuel pump rod stuck, you will most likely have to pull the heads. If you find a stuck-open valve, that should at least narrow which head to pull. Good luck.
12-11-2012 06:39 PM
oldbogie
Quote:
Originally Posted by kentactic View Post
Thats the rod im working with, im assuming this is the cap screw style you recommend? Its a 5.7''. Next if i can count on the cam making contact then what style cam should i be looking for? This is the total Rotating Assembly i have: Assault Pro Series 383 Balanced Rotating Assembly - KMJ Performance

That would be it. These usually don't have clearance problems, but things are tight and manufacturing tolerances result in slight differences, so the next step is to put the cam in then the crank then install the piston and rod assemblies and timing set. Then run the damper bolt in to use it with a wrench to rotate the crank in the clockwise direction from the front, easier done with a friend slowly turning and you spotting with a strong light and a set of feeler gauges to measure the clearances as the crank is turned.

The only time this stuff just assembles by stuffing parts in is on the OEM assembly line where the clearances are designed in so assembly is production line fast (what they call “rate” in the factory) and always repeatable one engine to the next. When you strike out building hot rod engines every engine, even what appears to be copies with the same parts, are custom builds requiring that all these contact points be identified and checked. Expect to have the engine assembled and checked then disassembled and reassembled then maybe rechecked at least a couple times before it finally goes together. A stroker needs this bottom end checked out, include in that the oil pump clearances to crank and bottom of the pan. Windage tray and scrapers to crank and oil pump if these are used. Fit of the distributor to the cam gear and oil pump drive this means you need to put the top end on with the pan off. But At this time you can also check the piston crown to deck clearance sometimes you find the pistons are rebuilder high pin type and the zero deck you thought you had is back to oh-twenty five and the compression gone to hell with it, and by the way the wrong pistons were in the box marked for a standard height pin piston ( oh-well S#it Happens). Or you discover that milled heads and decked block with the high lift cam and or high ratio rockers have the valves and pistons occupying the same space at the same time. This is all a PIA to check out but is lot easier and cheaper to fix before building a fire in the cylinders then discovering the things that don't clear each other.

Bogie
12-11-2012 05:53 PM
kentactic
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldbogie View Post
383 strokers have three (3) possible points of interference between the rods and internal surfaces and the cam. These can be the pan rail, the bottom projection of the cylinder walls into the crankcase area and the camshaft. Not all blocks have all these interferance points as there are differences between castings that may or may not allow rod clearance with a stroker crank. The cam can be counted on to be an all the time problem however. So you need to check the clearance all the way around.

Generally, capscrew rods have fewer clearance problems than do conventional bolt and nut arraingements. But even when using stroker clearanced rods you've got to check these interference places. It's considered that .050 inch clearance is sufficient, it ain't much though. When it comes to grinding the block especially around the cylinder bases don't remove more materail than absolutly necessary as this area can be thin. The bolt and nut rod unless its the 400's 5.56 inch job will require grinding on the bolt head, while considered safe in the popular press, I can't and don't do it, that's the kind of thing that will keep me awake at night so I always build these things with a cap screw rod, for a budget street perfomance engine/claimer/ even a rules Sportsman my choice is the SCAT ProStock or ProComp >>> Scat Crankshafts <<<. My preference is for the floating pin configuration in the 6 inch length. But there's nothing wrong in using the press pin nor the 5.7 inch rod.

Bogie
Thats the rod im working with, im assuming this is the cap screw style you recommend? Its a 5.7''. Next if i can count on the cam making contact then what style cam should i be looking for? This is the total Rotating Assembly i have: http://www.kmjent.com/cart/assault-p...-assembly.html

12-11-2012 05:45 PM
hcompton
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunrise7 View Post
Its a stroker.... but it ran before we pulled it out of the car it was in.
How long has it sit with out running. I had a block sit for a few weeks in the garage and was locked up with rust not i was able to get it apart and cleaned up with no damage but it doesnt take much to stop a sharp set lf rings cold.

A few hot cold cycles (day/night) will make the cast iron pull in water from the air and rust up almost over night. I always spray em down with oil and duct tape all the ports vent and dipstick closed to avoid rust. If its going to set outside for over a year fill it up with oil in the cylinders and crankcase. Old oil is fine. Then seal it up as much as you can.
12-11-2012 04:38 PM
oldbogie
Quote:
Originally Posted by kentactic View Post
Ah i see. and yeah i meant clearance the cylinder not cut the rod itself. Is it typical to have to do this on a 383? Or should i assemble it first to see if its an issue?

Sorry dont mean to rob this gentlemens thread.
383 strokers have three (3) possible points of interference between the rods and internal surfaces and the cam. These can be the pan rail, the bottom projection of the cylinder walls into the crankcase area and the camshaft. Not all blocks have all these interferance points as there are differences between castings that may or may not allow rod clearance with a stroker crank. The cam can be counted on to be an all the time problem however. So you need to check the clearance all the way around.

Generally, capscrew rods have fewer clearance problems than do conventional bolt and nut arraingements. But even when using stroker clearanced rods you've got to check these interference places. It's considered that .050 inch clearance is sufficient, it ain't much though. When it comes to grinding the block especially around the cylinder bases don't remove more materail than absolutly necessary as this area can be thin. The bolt and nut rod unless its the 400's 5.56 inch job will require grinding on the bolt head, while considered safe in the popular press, I can't and don't do it, that's the kind of thing that will keep me awake at night so I always build these things with a cap screw rod, for a budget street perfomance engine/claimer/ even a rules Sportsman my choice is the SCAT ProStock or ProComp >>> Scat Crankshafts <<<. My preference is for the floating pin configuration in the 6 inch length. But there's nothing wrong in using the press pin nor the 5.7 inch rod.

Bogie
12-11-2012 04:32 PM
engineczar Just throwing this out there. Any chance something is hitting the engine stand like a bolt in the flange of the crank?


Edit: Hans beat me to it.
12-11-2012 04:27 PM
bowtiemike
sbc only one rev

Is this engine on the stand upside down? there are soo many things that could do this and not all are bad, ive had a stand that would lightly catch one of the bellhouse mounted bolts that hold it up hit an arm on the stand, Is the fuel pump still bolted to the engine(if mech pump)ive had a pump rod jam me up before also,will it turn around more than once with engine upright? did the engine run good(no knocks) before it was pulled to eliminate rod to crank bind? give me an idea if you can see what parts bind when the engine is turned over(like when it dead ends does one of the rods stop before top dead center,usually you can see inside the spark plug hole in each cylinder when it is TDC and should be able to see if a valve cover or intake bolt dropped in when it was being dissassembled ,these are some things ive run into in the past but like i said there are soo many possibilities check these out and you can go from there
12-11-2012 04:27 PM
Hans2
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunrise7 View Post
I have a small block Chevy engine that is currently mounted on my engine stand.
Taking a flyer here - Any chance the counterweight on the back of the crank is hitting the mounting bracket for the stand?
12-11-2012 04:00 PM
sunrise7 Its a stroker.... but it ran before we pulled it out of the car it was in.
12-11-2012 03:40 PM
Trucknut I had that problem on my Pontiac 400. The dipstick was winding around the crankshaft because the builder didn't put in the lower dipstick tube.
12-11-2012 03:29 PM
kentactic Ah i see. and yeah i meant clearance the cylinder not cut the rod itself. Is it typical to have to do this on a 383? Or should i assemble it first to see if its an issue?

Sorry dont mean to rob this gentlemens thread.
12-11-2012 03:06 PM
hcompton
Quote:
Originally Posted by kentactic View Post
How does a rod hit a lobe on the cam? You mean rod hitting the bottom of the cylinder wall?

Im wondering if im going to need to clearance for the rods in my 383.
You want to clearence the block. Not the rods if at all possible. A rod hitting the cam lobe is possible and usally more of a problem. If so you need to get the same cam cut ln a small base circle. It will cost a bit more than normal cam but easily done.

You can also buy rods and rods bolts that will clear but they cost a more than stock as well. Do you have an engine stand you can rotate the engine on. If so pull the pan and see where it hits if nothing hits below you may want to check for a loose bolt in the cylinder a small retreival magnet will grab it you may not be able to get it out but if you find the problem then its easy to solve.

Did you have it bored? Any chance of rust in the bore. Also all the valve spring up at the same hieght with the rockers backed off?
12-11-2012 02:57 PM
engineczar Because of the longer stroke it's possible for the big end of the connecting rod to hit the cam as it passes by. Usually stock rods with regular nut and bolt type rod bolts. #'s 1, 2, 5, and 6 are the most likely to hit. Some people think that small base circle cams will fix this but not always. It usually depends on what rods you're using. Clearanced cap screw type rods are usually your best bet for having enough clearance out of the box.
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